29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
John
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29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Post by John »

29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Artificial Intelligence and Climate Change

** 29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e151229



Contents:
2015 - A breakthrough year for Artificial Intelligence
The debate about preventing the Singularity
Artificial Intelligence and Climate Change
Proof that the Singularity will occur by 2030


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, artificial intelligence, singularity,
Thomas Roberts Malthus, Malthus Effect, Google, Facebook, Microsoft,
natural language processing, big data, image recognition,
self-driving cars, IBM's Watson, Elon Musk, Tesla Motors, Sam Altman,
OpenAI, Information Technology & Innovation Foundation, ITIF

Image

gerald
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Re: 29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Post by gerald »

What is to be done with the people? as pets or terminated?

John
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Re: 29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Post by John »

gerald wrote:What is to be done with the people? as pets or terminated?
Could go either way.

Jes Lues

Re: 29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Post by Jes Lues »

U wrote, among other things.....
For any species (including humans) to survive, the population growth rate must be greater than the food supply growth rate.

Don't you have that backwards? Otherwise, how can humans survive if they are expanding faster than food supplies can grow to support them?

John
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Re: 29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Post by John »

Jes Lues wrote: > U wrote, among other things..... For any species (including
> humans) to survive, the population growth rate must be greater
> than the food supply growth rate.

> Don't you have that backwards? Otherwise, how can humans survive
> if they are expanding faster than food supplies can grow to
> support them?
That's the point. Since the population grows faster than the food
supply (the Malthus Effect), the people are going to have fight a war
to see who gets whatever food is available. It becomes a war of
extermination, so it's a generational crisis war.

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Tom Mazanec
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Re: 29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Post by Tom Mazanec »

gerald wrote:What is to be done with the people? as pets or terminated?
The danger is not so much that robots see us as "pests". The danger is that, for any goal X programed into the robots, humans are a resource that might be used to promote goal X.
They would not regard us as an exterminator would regard a rat. They would just regard us as a house builder would regard a squirrel living in a tree on the future home's lot...just in the way. The builder doesn't specifically target the squirrel, but the squirrel is toast anyway.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

shoshin
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Re: 29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Post by shoshin »

John, I loved your brilliant piece n AI and The Singularity, I agree with your predictions. But won’t the human race disappear? This cartoon from XKCD shows an aspect of the problem:
http://xkcd.com/1613/

Two points in your piece with which I might cavil a bit:

First, does GD predict a self-extinction event? One of the puzzles of the universe is “where is everyone else? Why no visitors?” One answer is that “life” encounters several bottlenecks that prevent intelligent life from arising, and then reaching the level of space travel: Not the right molecules, not the right conditions. Or once arisen, catastrophic destruction intervenes (asteroids, volcanoes). Or life becomes “too intelligent/powerful” (the “Forbidden Planet” scenario). Or maybe faster than light travel proves to be impossible. We are at the stage at which we may develop the ability to travel across light-years, but might we also find a way to destroy ourselves? The consensus seems to be that civilizations destroy themselves before they get to the space travel stage. Is that part of GD?

Second, I question your confidence that climate change will be solved technologically. Your use of the horse manure analogy is ill-advised, as is your dismissing long-range climate predictions with “we can’t even predict what the weather will be next month.” That’s true, but the long-term trends are undeniable. With respect to horse manure, you are confusing “local ruin” with “systemic ruin.” Climate catastrophe is systemic ruin. As a software guru, you know (and have discussed) the ever-enlarging software packages that no one actually understands, and that periodically collapse with no explanation. Any sufficiently complex system has multiple connections and feedback loops. The “ecosphere” is a monumental example. It can withstand multiple insults and perturbations (CO2 levels, methane, destruction of the rainforest), slowly adapting and changing. But at some point, the system will dramatically “reset” itself to a new equilibrium point. And that point is unpredictable. And that time is unpredictable. Given human nature, we will NOT act to prevent this, we will only REACT. Humans discount the future. Gradual change is ignored. We will continue to “perturb the system” until something dramatic happens, and that will be a surprise.

Finally, an unrelated comment: You must be shivering with delight at Marco Rubio’s campaign ad tag-line:

“The world is a safer place when America is the strongest country on earth.”

He’s like the love-child of Monroe and Truman! And if you just substitute “military/industrial complex” for “world,” it’s true!

John
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Re: 29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Post by John »

David, thanks for the compliment. It's very kind of you to say so.
shoshin wrote: > First, does GD predict a self-extinction event? One of the puzzles
> of the universe is “where is everyone else? Why no visitors?” One
> answer is that “life” encounters several bottlenecks that prevent
> intelligent life from arising, and then reaching the level of
> space travel: Not the right molecules, not the right
> conditions. Or once arisen, catastrophic destruction intervenes
> (asteroids, volcanoes). Or life becomes “too intelligent/powerful”
> (the “Forbidden Planet” scenario). Or maybe faster than light
> travel proves to be impossible. We are at the stage at which we
> may develop the ability to travel across light-years, but might we
> also find a way to destroy ourselves? The consensus seems to be
> that civilizations destroy themselves before they get to the space
> travel stage. Is that part of GD?
Generational Dynamics really doesn't address the creation of life nor
the extinction of life. Those questions are left to the evolutionary
biologists, the philosophers and the theologians. GD addresses the
stuff in the middle.

However, in the full article, I did include speculation about other
intelligent life in the universe. The speculation is as
follows:
  • Technological development must occur in a specific order. You
    can't invent the car until you've invented the wheel.
  • Therefore, every intelligent species in the universe will develop
    technology in the same way as humans, and will eventually reach the
    Singularity in the same way.
  • After the Singularity, technology development will occur vastly
    more quickly. Assumption: At some point in time, all technological
    development will be completed. We call this point Singularity#2.
    Every intelligent species in the universe will eventually reach the
    same Singularity#2.
  • Therefore, we arrive at this speculation: Other intelligent
    species have all reached Singularity#2, and they're in communication
    with each other. They're aware of us on earth, and they're watching
    us, to see when we reach Singularity#2, so that we can join their
    community.
shoshin wrote: > Second, I question your confidence that climate change will be
> solved technologically. Your use of the horse manure analogy is
> ill-advised, as is your dismissing long-range climate predictions
> with “we can’t even predict what the weather will be next month.”
> That’s true, but the long-term trends are undeniable.
I'm actually quite confident that climate change will be solved
technologically. That's the only way it can be solved. The only
question is whether the technology will be developed corporations, or
through some loony government project. I guess you know where I stand
on that question.

I personally believe that nanotechnology will provide the eventual
solution.

Also, the long-term trends are indeed deniable. Climate change
activists have gotten one prediction after another wrong. (See the
links at the end of that section.) And I don't for a moment believe
that climate scientists have the vaguest clue what the earth's
temperature will be in 2100. This is all sleazy politics, and
a grab for taxpayer money.
shoshin wrote: > With respect to horse manure, you are confusing “local ruin” with
> “systemic ruin.”
Of course the horse manure problem was systemic. If the use of horses
had increased in an unlimited fashion, then every city and town in the
world would be plagued with horse manure, horse urine, horse corpses,
and resulting disease and vermin. This could easily lead to some kind
of systemic disaster, such as a worldwide plague that would kill
billions of people and billions of horses, and cause the extinction
of many species.
shoshin wrote: > Climate catastrophe is systemic ruin. As a software guru, you know
> (and have discussed) the ever-enlarging software packages that no
> one actually understands, and that periodically collapse with no
> explanation. Any sufficiently complex system has multiple
> connections and feedback loops. The “ecosphere” is a monumental
> example. It can withstand multiple insults and perturbations (CO2
> levels, methane, destruction of the rainforest), slowly adapting
> and changing. But at some point, the system will dramatically
> “reset” itself to a new equilibrium point. And that point is
> unpredictable. And that time is unpredictable. Given human nature,
> we will NOT act to prevent this, we will only REACT. Humans
> discount the future. Gradual change is ignored. We will continue
> to “perturb the system” until something dramatic happens, and that
> will be a surprise.
This is very dramatic, and just as speculative as the horse manure
systemic disaster.

The part that you're leaving out is that the multiple connections and
feedback loops usually mean that problems are self-corrected by the
complex system.

Gradual change is NOT ignored. Look at what's happening in Beijing.

There must be millions of people in corporations and universities around
the world who are looking for a solution to the "climate change problem,"
because they know that the first person who finds one will make millions
or trillions of dollars. Sleazy politicians will have nothing to do
with it except to take the credit.
shoshin wrote: > Finally, an unrelated comment: You must be shivering with delight
> at Marco Rubio’s campaign ad tag-line:

> “The world is a safer place when America is the strongest country
> on earth.”

> He’s like the love-child of Monroe and Truman! And if you just
> substitute “military/industrial complex” for “world,” it’s true!
Rubio? Who's that? I thought the only person running was Trump.

gerald
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Re: 29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Post by gerald »

Singularity, civilization and humanity, what next?- Where are the advanced civilizations and do they experience war? hmmm

OK, for the sake of argument lets bring out the tin foil hat.

Not wanting to beat a dead horse - manure not intended - and relating to two books which I have previously mentioned ( The Lost Book of Enki, and the Alien Interview ) these books contain some possible indicators to the above questions.

In the Enki book the two sides of an advanced planet wide civilization have a nuclear war and then patch things up, after realizing it was not a good idea. And they do what they can to prevent a repeat.Their advanced technology appears to have been kept under control, they were/are a space faring civilization and self thinking "machines" were apparently not allowed.They maintained their biology but their space faring was limited.

In the Interview book we are dealing with a very advanced civilization capable of inter galactic travel using speeds or methods that make light speed seem like standing still.They are post biological and are at war with another civilization. As for the singularity #1 & #2 they have either past through them a long time ago or evolved around it.

As for being visited by others, we do make for an interesting "petri dish", so why disturb the culture?

But, -- What do the genetics of the Cheetah imply? http://www.jstor.org/stable/1310254?seq ... b_contents ---- page 358 of Bio Science --- When comparing the genetics of captive, wild or museum specimens -- "Their genes were all the same " " They look like highly inbred laboratory mice or domestic livestock" -- The work of Atlantis? or Aliens, like those in the book of Enki ?
After all, Cheetah's have the physical characteristics of a cat and a dog and were Pharaonic pets.

Hmmm

Uber

Re: 29-Dec-15 World View -- Artificial Intelligence breakthroughs in 2015, the Singularity by 2030

Post by Uber »

This one made me laugh. Only a dedicated materialist could live with this sort of cognitive dissonance. On the one hand we have the biological computer brain which is, apparently, reduced to being a mere deterministic calculating machine (by logical inference). On the other we have the deterministic electronic 'brain'. And now there is apparently a great danger that the electronic 'brain' will become so powerful that it will overtake the biological brain in 'intelligence'. :roll:

Only a human brain could imagine that sort of stuff!

'Intelligence isn't some magical, mystical force. It's actually the ability to find new ways to combine previous experiences in new ways.' Really? That's it? No purpose involved? Well that is true materialism!

Without purpose all you can do is make random junk, and there is no way to sort through it for anything useful, because 'useful' implies purpose. Materialism dies right there, (the theory itself relies on purpose to even exist).

So if you're talking about AI surpassing the brain then it has to develop a sense of purpose, and logically no deterministic algorithm is capable of that.

May I suggest the Christian worldview, which explains the human brain as a very important connection between our free-willed, purpose-driven, creative selves, and material reality. That makes the brain much, much more powerful than any crude, deterministic electronic calculating machine could ever be.

There's nothing to worry about here. Computers can only ever be a lot stupider than the stupidest of us. It's simple logic.

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