Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

4-Dec-15 World View -- Russia and Turkey increasingly on a war footing

Russia cancels Turkey gas pipeline, prepares for Bosporus closure

** 4-Dec-15 World View -- Russia and Turkey increasingly on a war footing
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e151204



Contents:
Russia and Turkey exchange vitriolic accusations about ISIS oil sales
Russia cancels Turkey gas pipeline, prepares for Bosporus closure
Turkey's grievances against Russia, and the road to war
San Bernardino mass shootings


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, Russia, Turkey, Vladimir Putin, Recep Tayyip Erdogan,
Islamic State / of Iraq and Syria/Sham/the Levant, IS, ISIS, ISIL, Daesh,
Ukraine, Crimea, Syria, Turkmens, Black Sea, Crimea,
TurkStream pipeline, Akkuyu Nuclear Power Plant,
the Turkish straits, Bosporus and Dardanelles channels,
San Bernardino

John wrote:...saying that Erdogan's son Necmettin Bilal Erdogan is a terrorist sponsor supporting the so-called Islamic State (IS or ISIS or ISIL or Daesh) by arranging for the purchase of large quantities of oil from ISIS, on behalf of Turkey.

Unfortunately, nothing that comes from Putin or the Russians can be believed.

Erdogan's son is part owner in a company that transports oil. There have been a number of reports on this. I think it is true that Erdogan's Son's business is profiting from ISIS oil trade. It also seems true that many many trucks full of oil were crossing into Turkey. These days they are getting blown up when they get near Turkey. The Youtube videos of the fires convince me they were carrying oil.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-2 ... -president

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oygc6k4pIJs

Erdogan's son-in-law is "Minister of Energy":

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/24 ... lu-cabinet

Turkey has closed their border where Kurds are on the other side but has not closed where ISIS is on the other side. Lots of trucks going both ways.

ISIS is buying huge amounts of ammunition. Somehow they are getting the money to pay for all this. Selling oil seems to be how. Syria and Iraq connect to Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, or Israel. From the maps of ISIS controlled territory, Lebanon and Israel don't seem like real options. Iran hates ISIS as much as Putin. Iraq is controlled by Shia and fighting ISIS. Erdogan talks about their "brothers in Syria" and is clearly supportive of the rebels. When the Kurds threatened to cut off ISIS from Turkey, Erdogan started bombing them. There are many reports that the oil flows to Turkey, not just Putin. When Putin said that his sat images showed the oil was going to Turkey, the best the USA could do to contradict this was "Some oil is also sold to people in Syria", they would not say, "Our NATO partner is not involved with the oil smuggling". If they knew Turkey was clean they would say so. Turkey is not clean.

Many other countries have sat images of what is going on. If there was anything fake about Putin's images, people could come out with real images. Also, experts can probably tell if an image has been photoshopped, so it is not likely Putin would risk a fake.

Erdogan dreams of Muslims fighters making a new Ottoman empire with him at the head. He thinks he can start with Syria.

It seems Erdogan's son and also son-in-law are really facilitating trade in ISIS oil. Putin is right on this. When the Kurds (now in no-fly-zone), Russians, Syrians, Hezbola, and Iran keep ISIS away from the border with Turkey, you will see ISIS run out of ammunition and the fight will go badly for them.

Putin wanted to hurt Erdogan and the best way was to tell the truth about what they are doing. They are helping the rebels, as is Saudi Arabia, Qutar, and the USA. But the others are helping through Turkey, so Turkey can take the fall.

It certainly seems to be the case that everyone is or has at some time used ISIS for their own benefit. Syria to let the internal battles take place to disrupt the FSA, USA as proxy army to depose Assad probably for the pipelines and/or to support reforming the caliphate, Turkey for both Assad and Kurds. There is also evidence Russia is not attacking ISIS as much as they would have us think while they take on all of the other anti Assad forces. Not really sure what Putin is doing there honestly by not going after ISIS full time - I saw a lot of posts on ZH weeks ago giving Vlad 3 weeks to clean up the mess so that it obviously not happening quite that fast.

Of course we see Russia, Syria, Iran and Iraq becoming solidified so in any case it is forming up quite nicely except for the USA switching sides and EU dumping Turkey. Seems to be happening pretty quickly but on track with GenDyn (which is pretty cool that the method seems robust). It gets hard to figure it all out since we have US/EU media talking the party line and we have RT doing the same for Russia. I try to put the 2 pieces together but it is hard to know who to believe and right now if either of them told me the grass was green I would still want to see it for myself.