12-Jan-15 World View -- Is Islam at war with the West?

[John]

12-Jan-15 World View -- Reader comments: Is Islam at war with the West?

Is PEGIDA a neo-Nazi movement, or just a grass roots protest?

** 12-Jan-15 World View -- Reader comments: Is Islam at war with the West?
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e150112



Contents:
Reader comments on Islam and Christianity
Is Islam at war with the West?
Is Islam a religion, like Christianity, or just an ideology or mindset?
Is PEGIDA a neo-Nazi movement, or just a simple grass roots protest?


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, France, Paris, Charlie Hebdo,
Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Mali, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Pakistan,
Islam, Christianity, Nazis, Holocaust, Ottoman Empire,
Iran, Great Islamic Revolution, Iran/Iraq war,
Burma, Myanmar, Rohingyas, Pegida, Germany,
Hungary, Jobbik, Greece, Golden Dawn

[Trevor]

If anything, those numbers are massive understatements. 76,000 have died in Syria, 23,000 in Iraq, 35,000 in South Sudan, 14,000 in Afghanistan, 10,000 in Nigeria, almost all of whom are Muslim. That would add up to around 158,000 deaths over 2014, most of whom are Muslim. So I take your point, but those numbers sound pretty low. That's just the larger conflicts; I'm not including the smaller ones.

[John]

> If anything, those numbers are massive understatements. 76,000
> have died in Syria, 23,000 in Iraq, 35,000 in South Sudan, 14,000
> in Afghanistan, 10,000 in Nigeria, almost all of whom are
> Muslim. That would add up to around 158,000 deaths over 2014, most
> of whom are Muslim. So I take your point, but those numbers sound
> pretty low. That's just the larger conflicts; I'm not including
> the smaller ones.

You're probably right that the numbers are underestimates.

It's absolutely incredible that there's a huge war going on in the
world, and the West is almost blind to it.

[solomani]

You keep using the straw man argument of comparing NAZI "christians" with Moslem terrorists. I would argue that you can't be a NAZI and a Christian - plenty of Christians died at Hitler's hands. Even if you don't agree with that argument the fact of the matter is that someone calling themselves a Christian who then murders Jews is by definition not a christian. They are inconsistent with their stated belief system.

However a Moslem who murders non-believers - whatever that maybe defined as - is consistent with his belief systems. That makes Islam into a category more akin to NAZIsm, Stalinism and other totalitarian ideologies than a religion. Islam is a civilzational cancer. Any culture they touch they destroy. They never add to the culture they only take away. The first culture to be destroyed was Arabic. I think the only reason Islam isn't in all out open war with the West in terms of armies marching on Greece and Israel is that they don't have the means , opportunity or the capabilities. Fortunately for the world Islam creates backwardness and infighting.

And trying to argue that the contributions to society of Christianity is some how a sum total of evil is historically autistic. Modernity is a gift of Christianity. Islams gift? Backwardness and barbarism.

Finally to be very precise I am saying ISLAM not Moslems. Moslems are enslaved as well by this totalitarian ideology.

[NoOneImportant]

Thank you, John. Many would have missed the post in the Forum.

Incidentally, you don't get to declare what I need to do to constitute a proof of my contention as though this were an Aristotelean logic course and this is one of the course syllogisms; and then set impossible criterion that you declare shall constitute a proof; one of which is an unerring forecast of the future. The first item, the difference between Christianity and Islam requires no response - all of Western Civilization, including the University, as we understand it, comes as a direct outgrowth of Christianity, if in fits and starts, including all Common Law, and the hard sciences. Here alone, ignoring all else, there is no equivalence in Islam. Which would you like to spend the rest of your days living in: the Middle East, or Europe, or North America?

Isn't the real question your asking is: do we differentiate (what appears to be your choice), i.e. take any moment in time and evaluate the two; or do we integrate, i.e take the aggregate over time and evaluate the merit of each? Differentiating, taking any random moment, either may,or may not eclipse the other; integrating, we view and evaluate the cumulative effect of each over time.

One of man's great enigmas is how the monster within man is loosed upon society, and how that monster transforms society into the monstrous. How a Christian nation, Germany, a nation with a rich history of ethical, and moral thinkers could permit itself to be transformed into the barbaric monstrosity that precipitated WWII. Germany should have been the last place for a Hitler to take root, and yet take root he did. It is a credit to the goodness in man that man continues to search, if vainly, for a meaningful answer.

Regarding your contention that terrorism is primarily a Sunni issue, what then will we make of Syria under Assad, and of Hezbollah under Nesrallah, and Iran under the Moolahs - all Shia, all steeped in terrorism (although I must admit the temptation to resort to the anecdotal is overwhelming)?

It was a good cut and paste, it's a shame you didn't have room for the "further" list, the items are compelling when evaluating the difference between Christianity, and Islam.

[Area51x]

Islam is unequivocally at war with the West. This war does not overtly manifest itself as phalanxes of warriors arrayed on the battlefield. That physical confrontation is not necessary given the generous nature of Western nations, who follow your prescription, allowing throngs of refugees to settle in their borders. As the percentage of Muslims increases in a country, their ideology becomes governance. The war is more subtle, relying on higher birthrates, early ideological indoctrination, settling in Western nations, and - as the population grows and feels its strength - agitating for Sharia law.

[JULLIEN1]

Is Islam at war with the West ?

No but takfirists consider themselves to be in a djihad against the enemies of Islam (i.e all the world except themselves).

I have come to believe there is no Islam other than radical Islam

If it was like that we wouldn't need to speak of a "radical" Islam. The reader himself mentions the schism between Sunnis and Shias. Islam isn't monolithic: even within Sunnism there are different schools of Islamic law and theology. National traditions also play an important role and even if they consider themselves to be Sunnis the Sufis (the "charismatic" Muslims) add another layer. Ironically the reader see Islam as the Takfirists do: as a "all-or-nothing" ideology with all the others as non-Muslims.

[Contrarianoutlook]

The more mainstream media and legitimate (in the sense accepted by the elite) parties continue to attack PEGIDA and anti-immigration Groups as neo-nazis which is ludicrious as no one in these movements have nothing against asian immigrants then they will only alienate and drive the movements further into nationalism. It is not a ethnic issue as there is no problem with Asians immigrants, they integrate with no problems and are hard workers, exactly what Europe needs and want and also exactly the opposite of muslims from Africa and the middle east though I have to give respect all the muslims that do work, but what you will always find is that these muslims NEVER pray 5 times a day, and I know growing up in muslim majority neighbourhood in Norway, they are just like Serbian, polish or Bosnian immigrants. So the problem is Islam and socialism, these two have entered an alliance which will ignite a New civil war in Europe as they collude together to establish total Control on Power, but the Socialist think they can Control the Islamists which they can't.

The liberal narrative of calling the PEGIDA racist is as shallow and transperant as it is disgusting, and you socialists will all pay for it in the end when we once again see Iron Guards marching down the streets.

[JULLIEN1]

You keep using the straw man argument of comparing NAZI "christians" with Moslem terrorists. I would argue that you can't be a NAZI and a Christian - plenty of Christians died at Hitler's hands. Even if you don't agree with that argument the fact of the matter is that someone calling themselves a Christian who then murders Jews is by definition not a christian. They are inconsistent with their stated belief system.

You can be a Nazi and a Christian: Goering and the conservative Nazis were. A religion as Christianity is very flexible, you can use it in every cultural context including Nazism. For example Himmler believed in the Aryan Christ theory (i.e Jesus as a blue-eyed blond Aryan who for some mysterious reason lived among the murderous Jews).

However a Moslem who murders non-believers - whatever that maybe defined as - is consistent with his belief systems. That makes Islam into a category more akin to NAZIsm, Stalinism and other totalitarian ideologies than a religion. (...)

Finally to be very precise I am saying ISLAM not Moslems. Moslems are enslaved as well by this totalitarian ideology.

It's definitively a religion: something linking mankind to the supernatural world (religare, to link together).

Islam is a civilzational (sic) cancer. Any culture they touch they destroy. They never add to the culture they only take away. The first culture to be destroyed was Arabic.

So, why is Islam so full of Arabic customs dating back to pre-islamic times?

I think the only reason Islam isn't in all out open war with the West in terms of armies marching on Greece and Israel is that they don't have the means , opportunity or the capabilities. Fortunately for the world Islam creates backwardness and infighting.

And trying to argue that the contributions to society of Christianity is some how a sum total of evil is historically autistic. Modernity is a gift of Christianity. Islams gift? Backwardness and barbarism.

What about the time one thousand years ago when Islamic civilization was technologically superior to the West?

[Contrarianoutlook]

You can be a Nazi and a Christian: Goering and the conservative Nazis were. A religion as Christianity is very flexible, you can use it in every cultural context including Nazism. For example Himmler believed in the Aryan Christ theory (i.e Jesus as a blue-eyed blond Aryan who for some mysterious reason lived among the murderous Jews).

Then you need to read some history, Himmler stated himself that the goal of national socialism was to destroy the poisonous cancer the jewish religion of christianity had infected the previously pure Aryan People. The National Socialists used christianity for propaganda reasons, but the ultimate goal of the nazis was the eradication of christianity. this is also shown in the Movie "Das Boot" as the nazi youth bully the ONLY christian boy serving on the submarine.

Himmler speculated a lot of bullshit, but his view on christianity is Clear if you take the time to actually read history, more specifically the writing by the nazis themselves and not books by historians With obvious political agendas. Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile" you would have us believe the nazis embraced christianity? Ludicrous as is it preposterous.

It is funny how you People don't seem to understand that movements and political parties can lie in order to achieve political goals, the nazis stated themselves that they were not christian in their internal writings and documents even though they pushed that relationship between christianity and national socialism publically, and I know there were a few officers that actually bought the bullshit, but Himmler, the example you yourself used was not that stupid and he knew where he wanted to take the New Reich which was elimination of jewish christianity and revival of thule/ostara theology.