22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain's nationalistic UKIP gains

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
John
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22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain's nationalistic UKIP gains

Post by John »

22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain in nationalistic surge as anti-EU UKIP party gains ground


Arab workers in Israel being fired in backlash from synagogue attack

** 22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain in nationalistic surge as anti-EU UKIP party gains ground
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e141122





Contents:
Arab workers in Israel being fired in backlash from synagogue attack
Britain in nationalistic surge as anti-EU UKIP party gains ground


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, Israel, Ashkelon, Benjamin Netanyahu,
Britain, UK Independence Party, UKIP, Nigel Farage,
David Cameron, Mark Reckless

gerald
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: 22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain's nationalistic UKIP gai

Post by gerald »

from the UKIP web site

"UKIP believes in promoting self-reliance and personal freedom from state interference. We believe the state in Britain has become too large, too expensive and too dominant over civil society."

UKIP is responding to a problem caused buy the state.
This is causing a problem for the bureaucrats in Britain, and is a response by the people ( some ) to some leaders and their minions, It will be resolved peacefully or other wise. -- This situation exists elsewhere.
As for nationalism and wars, wars are instigated by leaders, there are countries which are nationalistic and have been for a while but have not gone to war with others. An example, Switzerland.

"UKIP believes in promoting self-reliance and personal freedom from state interference --- wasn't this part of the founding principles of the US?

Guest

Re: 22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain's nationalistic UKIP gai

Post by Guest »

Now that America has officially open its borders to all comers, the question needs to be asked: Is a country with open borders still a country? And here is an even more important question: can a country be a welfare state with open borders and survive? Wo is going to pay for all these illegal (now legal) immigrants? It's not going to be the illegal immigrants. So who is going to pay?

Another question: When is Spanish going to become America's official langauge?

And finally: If America has open borders, then American taxpayers whould be allowed to leave and NOT have to file and pay taxes to the IRS when living and working overseas.

jimw4881
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:19 am

Re: 22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain's nationalistic UKIP gai

Post by jimw4881 »

GUEST …. Is your concern primarily with money costs? You made at least four references to “pay” so I want to ask this question. If there were no welfare system, no free education, no government transfers of wealth on any level … housing subsidies, food subsidies, medical subsidies … nada ….. what would be your objection to “open borders”? Actually you gave an indication when you asked: “When is Spanish going to become America's official language?” (I corrected your spelling) Can you recognize that you are part of the nationalistic fervor that the article refers to? In this respect we all are simply watching the pot come to a boil.

Guest

Re: 22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain's nationalistic UKIP gai

Post by Guest »

The money is a big part of it. Crime is another big concern. And lastly, there is the American part of me that would like to keep America like it was. I didn't vote to become Mexican. Is it wrong too be nationalistic? Mexicans are the most nationalistic people I've ever met. (But I guess being from a third world country means they are never held to the same standards that westerners are, eh?)

Have you ever looked at Mexico's draconian immigration laws?

How dare the Greeks or British complain when their countries are overrun with immigrants from every direction. How dare people comnplain when parts of their own country become no-go areas for citizens and the police. How dare they complain when their tax dollars (or ponds, euros, etc.) are spent to take care odf illegal immigrants. How dare taxpayers complain when they are afraid in thier own homes. How dare rthey complain when their family members are victims of violent crimes committed by immigrants. How dare they. What a bunch of Nazis...

Five years from now, America will be as poor as Mexico. Crime will be just as bad Mexico. Will you be happy then? Is the impoverishment of America the price to pay for being "culturally enriched" by massive levels of immigration? Is turning America into a narco-drug state like the rest of Central AMerica a great cure for boredom?

Thank you for pointing out my typo. But highlighting a typo doesn't make you clever-or right.

gerald
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: 22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain's nationalistic UKIP gai

Post by gerald »

hmmm
Any comments about "UKIP believes in promoting self-reliance and personal freedom from state interference --- wasn't this part of the founding principles of the US?"
Or are we all going to become property of the state? -- no matter what? -- like feudalism? no self-reliance, no personal freedom, and state control. All you have to do is not think.

NoOneImportant

Re: 22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain's nationalistic UKIP gai

Post by NoOneImportant »

jimw4881 wrote:

GUEST …. Is your concern primarily with money costs? You made at least four references to “pay” so I want to ask this question. If there were no welfare system, no free education, no government transfers of wealth on any level … housing subsidies, food subsidies, medical subsidies … nada ….. what would be your objection to “open borders”?

Absolutely it's about money, and more, oh so much more. I have watched your arrogant New Age BS for the last several weeks. Yes it is about money, and more to the point it's about all private property. It's about how a thug like you, much like the armed robber, believes that there is nothing you can't seize and give away. What you seek to steal has cost you nothing to acquire, or accrue; and thus there is little emotional attachment to that which you seek to give away to those who haven't earned it.

This is about how America happened, it's about how, in the historical blink of an eye, a land of primeval forest, desert, and wasteland became transformed. It's about how that barren land became the envy of the rest of the world in three human lifetimes(76 years each). It's about how a uniquely American concept, a concept born of Colonial America, and the American Revolution came into being... private property. It is a concept that is sacrosanct, and needs to be protected from those self-absorbed, egocentric, "self-righteous" thieves like you. Yes it is about the money, but just as importantly it is about the Rule of Law impeding thieves like you from stealing whatever you so desire under the ruse of the rule of law, and majority rule.

You see, people like you believe that there is nothing beyond your reach. That there is nothing you can't steal should you garner a sufficient voting majority. You believe that there is nothing you can't steal with a cause so worthy that you contend that it merits whatever theft you deem "necessary." Further, in the same light, you believe there is nothing you can't mandate, nothing you can't force me to do using the cudgel of a police state, through a majority vote. That there is no crime so heinous that you cannot redefine it to no longer be a crime. For you believe that, via dictate, you may declare any action to no longer be immoral and a crime simply because you vote and say it is to be so. It - the crime - is to be a crime no longer because you simply vote that it is no longer to be so, i.e. it is no longer a crime just because you say it shall be as you desire it to be. The Holocaust, costing the lives of millions of all stripes in Nazi Germany, was completely legal under German law while Hitler ruled. Similarly, to that end, twenty million Russians were murdered in the Gulags under the Soviets; also completely legal. Your mentality leads directly to the Kamps of Nazi Germany, and the Gulags of Soviet Russia. You believe you can make a crime not a crime with a sufficient voting majority. Perhaps your position might have some merit were you only willing to give away only your property, or affect only your actions. With those like you, that is however, never the case. You have come to believe that there is no limit to what you can seize and give away for your distorted sense of "right." I must presume, that you have come to this distorted belief through a perverted, rotten, corrupted school system that teaches such distortions as "right." It is a sense of "right" that you alone shall decide, dictate, and impress upon those to whom you have no intention of permitting the liberty, or freedom of choice to: consider; reflect upon; assume; or reject as their freely acquired personal morality would guide them. You are a thug of the first order; for you, like all "good little socialist," seek to make resistance to your theft the penultimate crime in the socialist society, eclipsing even murder, the morally indefensible crime of associating all private property with personal avarice and greed. Think money isn't important... don't eat for three days, then assess the importance of the five dollar bill you have that will purchase you a burger, and fries.

The legal protection, and safeguarding of private property is pivotal to the American Experience. It's a concept that transformed the world; it is a concept that gave birth to a nation that went to war not for conquest, not for empire, but in the pursuit of a higher calling. The right to the fruit of one's labor and the protection from people like you is a concept that is uniquely American. They (legally protected private property, and individual liberty) are the only way that works economically speaking... a free and willing buyer, and a free and willing seller; each willing to associate, un-coerced, to pursue and serve their own self interest. Each party moderated in their actions, and self-restrained, by a Christian ethos as each is free to see it. You see, it is a concept that is uniquely American. Private property, as such, didn't exist prior to the American Revolution. Under the Divine Right of Kings (a place that you desire to return us) there is nothing beyond the reach of the regent. Much as you seek to pervert the concept of private property for your own distorted sense of what you might call "morality."

Here in America it - private property - is something that many have spilled their blood over that you might cough up this socialist BS with freedom, while you serve no one but self while seeking to steal and disburse (using the coercive cudgel of a police state) that which you neither created nor earned. You seek to be Santa Clause, giving away what isn't yours to give. Yes, it is absolutely about the money, and it isn't your money to either seize, or to give away, nor is it your Citizenship to bequeath, for political expediency, to those who step in front of the millions of people world wide who go through the process in the correct manner - legally. Be rest assured: we will war over this issue. It is known by the far more common term as slavery.

gerald
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: 22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain's nationalistic UKIP gai

Post by gerald »

Personal actions, personal responsibility AND PERSONAL PROPERTY separate the individual from the slave, and one who is the property of the state. Add to this the rule of law, applied equally to ALL, especially to those in power.

MarvyGuy

Re: 22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain's nationalistic UKIP gai

Post by MarvyGuy »

Actually an idea that I would like to "toss out there" is that in many countries in Europe there is a nationalistic group rising that is pushing “out” established parties. I am thinking of course specifically for Golden Dawn, FN, and UKIP. Is there a parallel to the last crisis period Italy and Germany in the 1930's where a party sprang up "in the middle" stemming from a need created by the other dominant parties who were not addressing the "common man's" needs or wants? So the majority of people say they are concerned about a range of issues that the dominant parties do nothing to address.

Today we can look at the core similarities of the Democrat and Republican parties who are equally not doing a whole lot eventually driving the need for a 3rd party which will arise that will be nationalistic - possibly a "Progressive Conservative" party to serve as a catch all.

From this party a tyrant will arise that would make the previous bogeymen look quite agreeable (so W for the Democrat and O for the Republicans). All that is really needed would be another financial collapse and some increased criminal activity by the illegal immigrants - so we see this meme in the UK, France, and Greece. I can't speak for Portugal, Spain or Italy.

I think unfortunately for the next couple of generations the world is looking at less true libertarian or conservative principles as people forget what those words meant at one time (so conservative no longer seek to conserve and liberals become actors of/to a police state). Perhaps some future generation will arise motivated by the writings of Adams, Paine and Rousseau after the structures built on the back of cheap energy collapse and there is a return to a more rural society après la guerre.

jimw4881
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:19 am

Re: 22-Nov-14 World View -- Britain's nationalistic UKIP gai

Post by jimw4881 »

NoOneImportant ..... The magnet attracting illegal and legal immigrants to this country consists of “free stuff” provided by someone’s generation. Perhaps your generation is responsible. Perhaps you believe that the Haves should be forced to give to the Have Not’s. It doesn’t change anything and is only an observation.

The way I see it, remove the free stuff and you will remove most of the problem (illegal immigration) as we both see it. When I write of “money” I thought I was clearly referring to paying (with money) for free stuff transferred to non-producers. But nothing is free… as you know. But I am an “open borders” kind a’ guy … once the “free stuff” is removed. I hope that clears that up.

While I take pride in my country, I am not nationalistic. I know that borders can change overnight yet agree that without borders a “nation” cannot exist. Perhaps we are headed toward tribalism ….

Not sure where much of your rant is based; caffeine? I have been called a lot of things but never a “socialist” or “new age” so I’ll just have to dismiss your misconception. I think one problem of writing back and forth as opposed to a face to face discussion is the greater chance of misinterpretation. Body language can be important to understanding a particular meaning where mere words may fail. But in all discussion be polite and well mannered. There is nothing personal here. Or perhaps “Chill Dude.” (LOL)

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