15-Oct-14 World View -- NY Times reveals Saddam had WMDs

[John]

15-Oct-14 World View -- NY Times reveals Saddam Hussein had large quantities of WMDs

Turkey-France meeting signals new confusion in Turkey's Syria policy

** 15-Oct-14 World View -- NY Times reveals Saddam Hussein had large quantities of WMDs
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e141015



Contents:
NY Times reveals Saddam Hussein had large quantities of WMDs
Turkey-France meeting signals new confusion in Turkey's Syria policy
WHO: Within two months, there may be 10,000 new Ebola cases per week


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, Iraq, Saddam Hussein, Thomas Friedman,
weapons of mass destruction, WMDs,
Islamic State / of Iraq and Syria/Sham/the Levant, IS, ISIS, ISIL,
Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, France, François Hollande,
Kurdistan Workers' Party, PKK, Selahattin DemirtaS,
Syria, Bashar al-Assad, Kobani, Susan Rice, Incirlik,
World Health Organization, WHO, Ebola, Liberia

[Anonymous1]

Before it was 1.4 million, now its down to 10k a week. seems their forecast seems to be going limp, like the 'flu epidemic' 2 winters ago fizzed out. This person's opinion seems to be more realistic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of97tgG6RRo) but is a bit conspiracy theoretical. She does diagnose the doctor that went to Atlanta after 9 days of being sick down to a tee. if he was dire ill, why was he walking into the hospital?

[Anon]

Your prejudices are showing John, old abandoned ordinance is not usable WMD's. Though how mustard gas got classified as WMD is beyond me anyhow, it never was before to the best of my knowledge. Would the public have gone to war if Bush had said "I know Saddam has some mustard gas shells over 20 years old, they are no longer effective on the battlefield and are mostly buried in secret landfills, so we must go to war to dig them up and dispose of them properly"? Of course not. Bush promised we'd find active production of nuclear and chemical weapons. Quotes from the President:

"But what wasn't wrong was Saddam Hussein had invaded a country, he had used weapons of mass destruction, he had the capability of making weapons of mass destruction, he was firing at our pilots. He was a state sponsor of terror. Removing Saddam Hussein was the right thing for world peace and the security of our country."

"“The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas.”

Notice the key work PRODUCES in there. It's rather important.

“We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist network headed by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner. This network runs a poison and explosive training camp in northeast Iraq, and many of its leaders are known to be in Baghdad.”

Care to comment on that one?

A quote from Rumsfeld :

“We do know that the Iraqi regime has chemical and biological weapons. His regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons — including VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas. … His regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of biological weapons—including anthrax and botulism toxin, and possibly smallpox.” (presentation to Congress)

I don't see anything in there stating "we'll find his WMD's buried in toxic garbage dumps".

I'm really tired of this semantic game that's been played for quite a while now, Bush promised we'd find active production of WMD's in secret factories and we did not. We did not find any quantity of gas shells in usable condition whatsoever - the absolute total of old shells that were in old buildings and not rotted by exposure to damp and soil were, to the best of my knowledge, five. There were, indeed, shells in dumps. This has not been a secret and isn't a secret, it was reported many times before.

There was even the fervid reporting that "OMG, IS has overrun Saddams gas production site" as if nobody knew Saddam had produced gas prior to the first Gulf war. They got some old empty buildings - presuming Maliki wasn't doing something there.

Nobody found anything in usable condition. Get over it. This subject has gone way past the use by date.

[John]

You're the one showing your prejudices. People in your camp said
repeatedly that Saddam "had no WMDs." Now the NYT is reporting that
Saddam had "roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation
bombs," including such things as a "stockpile of sarin-filled
rockets."

Well, those don't count, you say, because that's "old sarin," not "new
sarin." Then you say that you're tired of semantic games, which
is funny.

If Saddam had those huge stockpiles, then they didn't come from thin
air. There must have been facilities somewhere for manufacturing
them. You don't just have loose sarin-filled rockets sitting around.
They must have been a huge technical support system for manufacturing,
storing, and using these weapons. Those manufacturing facilities
could have been reactivated at any time by Saddam.

As for the "fervid reporting" of ISIS, the concern that sarin gas and
other WMDs will fall into ISIS's hands is taken from the NYT article.

[MarvyGuy]

My obsession with this site continues unabated as events appear to be accelerating towards world wide generational conflict and financial collapse on a massive scale. For those on either side who cling to wrongs inflicted one could quote Mother Jones or MSNBC as well as Fox to support any viewpoint. I think the current admin has done quite a bit of irreversable damage over the past 6 years that is as bad as or worse than 8 years of W. While I understand that no matter who was in office this cycle was coming it is nonetheless difficult to accept. That I would be alive to see a constitutional republic overthrown in full view of its inhabitants where nothing can or will be done is discouraging. My hope is that someday another will arise based on the same precepts since until the human condition is changed the separation of powers still seems to be the best system of governance (though the stipulations made by John Adams must be applied).

[Anon]

I don't have a camp. Promises of active production of chemical weapons were not met. That's all there is to say about it.

[Anon]

In breaking news, Dutch biker gangs are going to Syria to fight with the Kurds. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... crime.html

Apparently Dutch law allows this. This is very much what happened in the run up to WWIII, with Col. Chennault and the 1st American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers ) in China. The Flying Tigers had presidential authority to operate though.

[MarvyGuy]

So they will be the "Flying Dutchmen" eh?

HuffPo had an article yesterday on Americans doing the same. Can't find it but ran across this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/1 ... _ref=syria

But never fear it is still all our fault (as usual of course) :O
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitc ... _ref=syria

[MarvyGuy]

This is pretty interesting as well:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014 ... of-Baghdad

[psCargile]

Whether Hussein's Iraq had deployable WMDs or not is rather a moot point if Hussein wasn't forthcoming on the UN resolutions to prove he didn't have them and was no longer a threat to his neighbors. He didn't comply, so what are what were we supposed to do? Just kinda hope he didn't have any?

I mean, we told him that he could avoid war by leaving Kuwait in 1990. He chose not to. We had to remove him. Had he pulled his troops out of Kuwait with a "My bad," history would have turned out different. But he lost, and we said you have to do X, Y, and Z, to end this conflict, or we going to have to take you out, and he didn't want to do it. WMDs or not, he failed to satisfy the conditions of his defeat, leading to a final invasion to end, as the UN called it, the conflict between Iraq and Kuwait. A lot of people separate the Gulf War from the Iraq War as independant wars, but they were part of the same war with the 11 year cease fire enforced by the northern and southern no-fly zones. So, in 2002, that war was still pretty much on-going, and it was only going to end with Hussein's compliance, or his removal. And he made his choice.