25-Jul-14 World View -- Can Hamas survive the Gaza war?

[John]

25-Jul-14 World View -- Can Hamas survive the Gaza war?


UN official says that Mideast will be 'shocked' into peace

** 25-Jul-14 World View -- Can Hamas survive the Gaza war?
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e140725


Contents:
UN official says that Mideast will be 'shocked' into peace
Can Hamas survive the Gaza war?


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, Jeffrey Feldman, United Nations,
Israel, Gaza, Hamas, Hanan Ashrawi, Khaled Meshaal,
Qatar, Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt

[gfmucci]

"So we have a perfectly reasonable question, and we have two bizarre answers from two Palestinian representatives. It's a sign of desperation that Hamas has not been able to come up with satisfactory narrative to the "human shield" question.
The repeated lying is a sign of desperation, and in fact, Hamas may be so desperate that it's not certain that it will survive this war, no matter who "wins.""

I don't believe this lying is a sign of desperation at all. It is what that Islamic culture does as routinely as calling for the destruction of Israel or taking a leak. Speaking of generations, lying has been endemic to Islamic doctrine and behavior for about 56 generations or more.

[vincecate]

There is no reason to be believe that a "moderate" government would be any more successful in governing Gaza as Hamas. And there's no reason to believe that this kind of military victory and imposed government wouldn't lead to a new war in a couple of years time, even worse than this one.

In the West Bank the Palastinians have a more moderate government. It does not waste all its money on tunnels and rockets. It is more successful in governing. It has not gone to war with Israel in a long time.

In Gaza the children are taught to hate Jews and that they must kill them all. I have to wonder if getting a phone call saying, "we saw rockets stored in your building and launched from your roof top so we are going to destroy it in 15 minutes, please get out and tell others" might make people doubt what they have been told about the Jews wanting to kill all of them. And having Hamas tell your kids to run to the rooftops when a missile is coming might make you wonder if Hamas is really protecting you.

[John]

> There is no reason to be believe that a "moderate" government
> would be any more successful in governing Gaza as Hamas. And
> there's no reason to believe that this kind of military victory
> and imposed government wouldn't lead to a new war in a couple of
> years time, even worse than this one.

> In the West Bank the Palastinians have a more moderate
> government. It does not waste all its money on tunnels and
> rockets. It is more successful in governing. It has not gone to
> war with Israel in a long time.

That was tried in Gaza starting in 2005, but within a year, the
"moderate" government was ejected, and replaced by a radical
government. That would happen again.

The West Bank is extremely restive. Mahmoud Abbas, who may be the
only remaining survivor of the 1948 war in a leadership position, has
been able to keep a lid on the most extreme forms of violence. But
he's 79 years old,

Almost any younger replacement would be far more radical, including
the likely successors Jibril Rajoub and Mohammed Dahlan.

Note the massive West Bank protests today. That's a sign of the
future.

John

[NoOneImportant]

And Vincecate wrote:

And having Hamas tell your kids to run to the rooftops when a missile is coming might make you wonder if Hamas is really protecting you.

There is an abject lack of understanding regarding the Palestinian mind set. The comments posted here attempt to impute a Western mindset - vision of the world - upon the decision making process of those who were born, reared, live and were conditioned in the ME. They don't have a mind set (a view of the world, if you will) equivalent to that of our life's experiences. In their mind it isn't the Hamas people who sent their children up to the roof to be killed by the known, and well defined coming Israeli ordnance. The fault lies with the Israelis, and with the western press who will just gobble up the pictures of the mangled little bodies - the dead children are merely cheap props, yes they are a personal tragedy, but vengeance will burn just so much the brighter. Incongruous, and irrational, from our perspective, as this may seem, they see the world through a tribal set of glasses. As I've noted before, the closest we can come to understanding this mindset, and world view is the Hatfield, and McCoy feud that raged in West Virginia, and Kentucky in the latter part of the 19th century. For the Brits who read this it's equivalent to the problem that England suffered with the highland Scot Clans prior to the battle of Cullloden. It's the reason that they - Middle Easterners - don't assimilate. It's the reason that they seek large families, all that can be truly counted upon is family - "...challenge me, and you challenge all my brothers, and all my relatives, and their relatives - and it isn't through the rule of law. And we will never stop coming."

We see things culturally. The bed rock foundation of our world view is based upon the written, and imposed rule of law. Great lengths are gone to in our society to attempt to dispense, flawed though it may be, impartial justice. That just isn't how the clan works. The clan in it's most basic form is: us vs them. The outsiders, or "they" can never become one of "us." And anyone of "us" wanting to become one of "them" is justification for killing them. There are cultural rules that order all societies, but those cultural rules in the case of the ME and Palestinians are specifically tribal based. They make no attempt to dispense "justice" (as we would identify and view it) when the parties are an "outsider" vs "one of us." It almost doesn't make any difference how brutal the act perpetrated by one of "us"; "justice" is only appropriately dispensed only when it rules for "our-side."

[Guest]

Using your logic, the Jews are also a tribe, and they behave in the same ways. What hypocrisy.

What the pro-Israeli types are trying to do is justify mass murder. And it's not working. HAMAS might not survive this onslaught, but the Israelis won't either. Arrogance and racist contempt for your enemies won't help you defeat them. I really don't have anything to add that most of the international press hasn't already pointed out.

[vincecate]

HAMAS might not survive this onslaught, but the Israelis won't either.

How would Israel not survive this?

[Guest]

You are going to have to think more than two hours ahead.

[vincecate]

You are going to have to think more than two hours ahead.

Come on, give me a hint. Do you think other Arabs want a piece of this or that Hamas is going to wipe out Israel on its own?

[Guest]

It's obvious. You know your side will lose; that's why you are hiding in a cave.