19-Oct-13 World View -- Saudi Arabia shocks U.N.

[John]

19-Oct-13 World View -- Saudi Arabia shocks U.N. by rejecting Security Council seat

Obamacare insurance companies trapped in a vicious financial Catch-22

** 19-Oct-13 World View -- Saudi Arabia shocks U.N. by rejecting Security Council seat
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e131019



Contents:
Israel / Turkey relations poisoned further by spy revelation accusation
Saudi Arabia shocks U.N. by rejecting Security Council seat
Obamacare insurance companies trapped in a vicious financial Catch-22


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, Israel, Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan,
Benjamin Netanyahu, Gaza, Mavi Marmara,
National Intelligence Organization, MIT, Hakan Fidan,
Saudi Arabia, United Nations Security Council,
Syria, Bashar al-Assad, Obamacare

[gerald]

wage-price controls ---

Reality as in nature may not be pleasant, and it may not go along with what the "educated and knowledgeable" think should happen, but nature and reality don't give a F-- what one thinks should happen. Same old same old. Reality is a brutal teacher, and gives no quarter. Some never learn.

[indyjonesouthere]

I rather suspect that with the inability of politicians to control the budget and the massive clusterf*** that is Obamacare we will find that within 3-5 years there will be NO government health care at all. Interest on the debt will destroy most people programs.

[Anon]

In a monopoly situation prices do not fall. The health care system in the USA has been a monopoly situation for a long time now.

[NoOneImportant]

Gerald wrote:

but nature and reality don't give a F-- what one thinks should happen. Same old same old. Reality is a brutal teacher, and gives no quarter. Some never learn.

And that's why the dynamic duo of Nixon/Obama will not work any better this time than it did the last time. In point of fact, the software debacle is counter productive, it only serves to mask, confuse, and extend the ultimate difficulty: that you can't legislate prosperity - human nature can't be legislated.

My initial urge was to lapse into sarcasm and declare that: "... no, no, no... it just isn't big enough; we've got to make it bigger...," the standard reply to all failed Marxist schemes. In a more enlightened Marxist society we could say something to the effect: "we gotta force those stingy doctors, and nurses to do what we say... or... or, I'll tell you what, or we'll send 'em to the gulags..." But that would be wrong; what we might try though is to ask the East Germans, or the Pols, or the Czechs, or the Hungarians, or the myriad of other failed collectivist Marxist extravaganzas what they think? For they, each of them, after their 45 "experiment", got rid of it as soon as was possible.

Unfortunately, there is a delusion in America - a delusion born of academia - that we can make work here what has never worded elsewhere; and we can make it work because we can care enough, and when that doesn't work, it always just boils down to: "...we'll just force 'em to do what we want."


Indyjonesouthere wrote:

I rather suspect that with the inability of politicians to control the budget and the massive clusterf*** that is Obamacare we will find that within 3-5 years there will be NO government health care at all. Interest on the debt will destroy most people programs.

And here, regardless of party or ideology, may possibly be our only ultimate salvation - a method of impressing fiscal discipline. People may scream as loud as they desire, and control all aspects of government, but the value of the currency is based, in the final analysis, upon belief. Interest rates - and correspondingly the price of commodities - are, in large measure, a reflection of the stability of that underlying belief. Undermine the belief in a stable currency, and as the Chinese have recently voiced (paraphrasing): "... we have to get a currency, other than the dollar, as the basis of international trade..." In that context, regardless of the Fed's zero interest policy, rates will climb. That is, no one will want to hold U.S. dollars - then the Fed can print all the dollars it desires, to no effect, as it won't be able to find anyone willing to accept them.

[gerald]

Gerald wrote:

but nature and reality don't give a F-- what one thinks should happen. Same old same old. Reality is a brutal teacher, and gives no quarter. Some never learn.

And that's why the dynamic duo of Nixon/Obama will not work any better this time than it did the last time. In point of fact, the software debacle is counter productive, it only serves to mask, confuse, and extend the ultimate difficulty: that you can't legislate prosperity - human nature can't be legislated.

My initial urge was to lapse into sarcasm and declare that: "... no, no, no... it just isn't big enough; we've got to make it bigger...," the standard reply to all failed Marxist schemes. In a more enlightened Marxist society we could say something to the effect: "we gotta force those stingy doctors, and nurses to do what we say... or... or, I'll tell you what, or we'll send 'em to the gulags..." But that would be wrong; what we might try though is to ask the East Germans, or the Pols, or the Czechs, or the Hungarians, or the myriad of other failed collectivist Marxist extravaganzas what they think? For they, each of them, after their 45 "experiment", got rid of it as soon as was possible.

Unfortunately, there is a delusion in America - a delusion born of academia - that we can make work here what has never worded elsewhere; and we can make it work because we can care enough, and when that doesn't work, it always just boils down to: "...we'll just force 'em to do what we want."


Indyjonesouthere wrote:

I rather suspect that with the inability of politicians to control the budget and the massive clusterf*** that is Obamacare we will find that within 3-5 years there will be NO government health care at all. Interest on the debt will destroy most people programs.

And here, regardless of party or ideology, may possibly be our only ultimate salvation - a method of impressing fiscal discipline. People may scream as loud as they desire, and control all aspects of government, but the value of the currency is based, in the final analysis, upon belief. Interest rates - and correspondingly the price of commodities - are, in large measure, a reflection of the stability of that underlying belief. Undermine the belief in a stable currency, and as the Chinese have recently voiced (paraphrasing): "... we have to get a currency, other than the dollar, as the basis of international trade..." In that context, regardless of the Fed's zero interest policy, rates will climb. That is, no one will want to hold U.S. dollars - then the Fed can print all the dollars it desires, to no effect, as it won't be able to find anyone willing to accept them.

Politicians, governments and bankers never learn,--- or think they can always con the people --- the first known fiat currency -- promise to pay was "originated in China during the Han Dynasty in 118 BC, and was made of leather." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknote ----- China went through numerious cycles of fiat and specie , and at times, even under pain of death, people refused the fiat ---- same old same old.

cheers

[gerald]

John since I can't find an Oct 21 post I'll post here
From you post ---------
Saudi Arabia under pressure to reverse its U.N. Security Council decision

The Saudis believe that they have played by all the rules, not pursuing any nuclear development of their own, and following all of America's wishes for decades. Since president Obama has taken office, America has turned its back on Saudi Arabia in one policy after another. The rejection of the U.N. seat is a signal that the Saudis don't intend to play by the rules any more.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Which rules? ---- The old adage --- All is fair in love and war?

Russian Terrorist Attack With Numerous Casualties Caught On Dashcam
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-2 ... ht-dashcam

Bandar told Putin, "...The terrorist threat is growing in light of the phenomena spawned by the Arab Spring. We have lost some regimes. And what we got in return were terrorist experiences, as evidenced by the experience of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and the extremist groups in Libya.... As an example, I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics in the city of Sochi on the Black Sea next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us... ( the Saudis )

[John]

> Russian Terrorist Attack With Numerous Casualties Caught On Dashcam
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-2 ... ht-dashcam

> Bandar told Putin, "...The terrorist threat is growing in light of
> the phenomena spawned by the Arab Spring. We have lost some
> regimes. And what we got in return were terrorist experiences, as
> evidenced by the experience of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and
> the extremist groups in Libya.... As an example, I can give you a
> guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics in the city of Sochi on
> the Black Sea next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the
> security of the games are controlled by us... ( the
> Saudis)

That's a very interesting analysis. Among the claims by various
people quoted in the story, here's what I believe:

• Bandar is encouraging some Chechens to go to Syria.
• Bandar is funding some Chechens in Syria.
• Bandar is funding some Chechens in Chechnya.

Here's what I DON'T believe:

> As an example, I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter
> Olympics in the city of Sochi on the Black Sea next year. The
> Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are
> controlled by us...

It's possible that some Chechens are sucking up to Bandar, but there
isn't a snowflake's chance in hell that all of them would call off a
Sochi attack because Bandar asks them to, or that they'll all submit
to his control. If Bandar really believes that, then he's in
fantasyland.

[gerald]

> Russian Terrorist Attack With Numerous Casualties Caught On Dashcam
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-2 ... ht-dashcam

> Bandar told Putin, "...The terrorist threat is growing in light of
> the phenomena spawned by the Arab Spring. We have lost some
> regimes. And what we got in return were terrorist experiences, as
> evidenced by the experience of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and
> the extremist groups in Libya.... As an example, I can give you a
> guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics in the city of Sochi on
> the Black Sea next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the
> security of the games are controlled by us... ( the
> Saudis)

That's a very interesting analysis. Among the claims by various
people quoted in the story, here's what I believe:

• Bandar is encouraging some Chechens to go to Syria.
• Bandar is funding some Chechens in Syria.
• Bandar is funding some Chechens in Chechnya.

Here's what I DON'T believe:

> As an example, I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter
> Olympics in the city of Sochi on the Black Sea next year. The
> Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are
> controlled by us...

It's possible that some Chechens are sucking up to Bandar, but there
isn't a snowflake's chance in hell that all of them would call off a
Sochi attack because Bandar asks them to, or that they'll all submit
to his control. If Bandar really believes that, then he's in
fantasyland.

True, however if the Saudi believe it , it has to be true ( to them ) even if it is not true in "reality". For if a group has a purpose and is willing to die for it, it is not important that their odds of succeeding are small for to them it ( successes ) is reality. ------------ not true? --- How many times have small groups overpowered large groups?

And that is the driving force of most conflicts.
cheers

[gerald]

Maybe there is another game in play -- the destruction of the dollar -- kinda like lets you and him fight.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-2 ... furious-us
To be sure, not just Prccne Bandar is angry - everyone else in Saudi is now fuming at Obama too:

In Washington in recent days, Saudi officials have privately complained to U.S. lawmakers that they increasingly feel cut out of U.S. decision-making on Syria and Iran. A senior American official described the king as "angry."

Another senior U.S. official added: "Our interests increasingly don't align."
Fair enough: but what can it do? It is no secret, that as the primary hub of the petrodollar system which is instrumental to keeping the dollar's reserve status, Saudi has no choice but to cooperate with the US, or else risk even further deterioration of the USD reserve status. A development which would certainly please China... and Russia, both of which are actively engaging in Plan B preparations for the day when the USD is merely the latest dethroned reserve currency on the scrap heap of all such formerly world-dominant currencies.

Perhaps the only party that Saudi can lash out at, since it certainly fears escalating its animosity with the US even more, is Russia. And perhaps it did yesterday, when as we reported, a suicide-bombing terrorist incident captured on a dashcam killed many people, and was supposedly organized by an Islamist extremist - of the kind that Bandar told Putin several months ago are controlled and funded by Saudi intelligence chief.

If true, and if Saudi wants to project its impotence vis-a-vis the US by attacking Russia, this will likely culminate with the Sochi winter Olympics. So will Prince Bandar be crazy enough to take on none other than the former KGB chief? And more importantly, just like in the US Syrian fiasco, what happens when and if Putin retaliates against the true power that holds the USD in place?