Climate Change

[gerald]

Indeed. One major eruption can do surpass all of mankind's efforts. Not sure if the anthropocentric argument is due to hysteric foolishness or
hysterical agendas, but I repeat myself.

sy

It is a bit of both, primarily due to ignorance of the masses which allows a few to control the many. Kind of like in ancient Egypt where the priests had the records of the Nile's cycles and could predict when it would flood so that planting could begin.
As a consequence the masses thought the priests communicated with the gods which gave the priests power over the masses. Not much different from today.

Humanity's biggest problem that it CAN control is the pollution generated and subsequent degradation of the environment, the poisoning of the land , overfishing etc. As for the supposed "warming" we may have much bigger problems coming ----

Interstellar Winds Buffeting Our Solar System Have Shifted Direction http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 142837.htm
Sep. 5, 2013 — Scientists, including University of New Hampshire astrophysicists involved in NASA's Interstellar Boundary Explorer (IBEX) mission, have discovered that the particles streaming into the solar system from interstellar space have likely changed direction over the last 40 years.


http://bow-and-lyre.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... hange.html

Now I am not a climatologist but when 1 body undergoes climate change, you look for a local effect, when 2 bodies simultaneously undergo climate change, this could be a coincidence, when 3 bodies in the same solar system undergo climate change, we are stretching the coincidence but when 4 bodies simultaneously undergo climate change (that we are aware of), then coincidence seems more than a little contrived. Now I'm willing to believe that there could be some weird statistical effect occurring here but Occam's razor implies that we look at what all these bodies have in common. And the simplest answer is that the Sun is getting hotter.

Must be all those damn SUVs on the surface of the Sun.
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Oh by the way -- stars including our Sun are "electrically powered" by the galactic circuits that they are in. Not much we can do about that. short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6tBGj5DEq4

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/ The Surface Of The Sun, The Photosphere And Electrically Driven Solar Flares That visible layer we see with our eyes is composed of penumbral filaments that are several hundred kilometers deep. This visible neon plasma layer that we call the photosphere, and a thicker, more dense atmospheric layer composed of silicon plasma, entirely covers the actual rocky, calcium ferrite surface layer of the sun. Solar Moss activity turns out to be the smoking gun that demonstrates conclusively that the sun is electrically active. The solar moss activity occurs at the sun's surface. Powerful electrical discharges in the solar atmosphere rip, tear and eject pieces of the solar crust from the surface. These parts of the crust are vaporized by the electrical discharge and form into a millions degree coronal loops which scientists refer to as solar moss activity. ----- see also http://www.electricuniverse.info/Introduction

And there is more -- but you get the idea , ---our lives are influenced by forces far removed from our "perceptions of reality."

[at99sy]

we may have much bigger problems coming ----

Interstellar Winds Buffeting Our Solar System Have Shifted Direction http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 142837.htm
Sep. 5, 2013 — Scientists, including University of New Hampshire astrophysicists involved in NASA's Interstellar Boundary Explorer (IBEX) mission, have discovered that the particles streaming into the solar system from interstellar space have likely changed direction over the last 40 years.

the last line sums up a great deal.

"We are finally able to resolve why these fundamental measurements have been changing with time: we are moving through a changing interstellar medium."

a changing interstellar medium huh. One may be able to make the connection that if space is changing without human interference then could the Earth be changing without it as well? <rhetoric of course>

sy

[gerald]

we may have much bigger problems coming ----

Interstellar Winds Buffeting Our Solar System Have Shifted Direction http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 142837.htm
Sep. 5, 2013 — Scientists, including University of New Hampshire astrophysicists involved in NASA's Interstellar Boundary Explorer (IBEX) mission, have discovered that the particles streaming into the solar system from interstellar space have likely changed direction over the last 40 years.

the last line sums up a great deal.

"We are finally able to resolve why these fundamental measurements have been changing with time: we are moving through a changing interstellar medium."

a changing interstellar medium huh. One may be able to make the connection that if space is changing without human interference then could the Earth be changing without it as well? <rhetoric of course>

sy

But it is "our" fault (sarcasm)-- pass new laws and regulations to solve the problem -- how F--ed is that? -- Ignorance is profound, but it allows for control.

cheers

[gerald]

Greenland: Once a Viking Paradise
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2014/02 ... -paradise/

"The bones of cattle, sheep, pigs and goats collected from archaeological sites reveal the existence of large farms with large productive pastures in what is now often snow covered wasteland. Eric drew thousands to those three new areas. The Greenland Vikings lived mostly on dairy produce and meat, primarily from cows"

"Chroniclers even mention swimming in Greenland’s Fjords! Totally impossible today."

"grapevines grew in the area of today’s shivering Wales! This was generally a period of prosperity for civilizations."

"During the Medieval Warm Period period crops flourished and the human race multiplied. Germany recorded vineyard growth at 700 feet higher elevation than at present. Temperatures averaged 2 degrees Celsius warmer than now. China was 3 degrees Celsius warmer. Our world was a different place!

"Although the Little Ice Age is a scientific reconstruction, it covers a period when there was a significant and chaotic down-turn in climate, compared to the present era. It is classified into four periods from around 1280 AD to 1850 AD. These erratic cold periods are referred to as the Wolf, Sporer, Maunder and Dalton weather minima ( solar activity ). Those dramatic climatic deteriorations were not only cooler, wetter and windier on average, but also vastly more chaotic in their fluctuations, creating the prime ingredients for famine and (curiously) plague."
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And the media flips out when there is the - wettest, driest, coolest, hottest, etc. weather on record somewhere and some want to blame man, hmmmm

[gerald]

Are we past due?

Nature plays the joker when she sees fit -- and we dance to her tune.

Laki Iceland volcanic eruption 1783, 122 million tons of sulfur dioxide dumped into the atmosphere --- the year without summer, massive crop failures in northern hemisphere. http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/his ... d-history/ -- "The resulting crop failures triggered one of the most famous insurrections of starving people in history – the French Revolution of 1789-1799".

Tambora Indonesia, 1815 the year with out summer http://history1800s.about.com/od/crimes ... ambora.htm with crop failures --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

Krakatoa 1883, northern hemisphere temperatures dropped by 1.2 degrees c -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_eruption_of_Krakatoa

Gee, what would happen if we had a year without summer today? It could get very interesting. Volcanic eruptions tend to be unplanned events that do not obey human laws.

cheers

[Nathan G]

Pardon me if I sound ignorant on this, but I have a question.
We know that global average temperature rises and falls over various cycles, some large some small. So I have three questions:

Exactly how many temperature cycles are there?

How long to each of these cycles last?

When was the last "peak" of each cycle?

Thanks in advance,
Nathan G

[gerald]

Pardon me if I sound ignorant on this, but I have a question.
We know that global average temperature rises and falls over various cycles, some large some small. So I have three questions:

Exactly how many temperature cycles are there?

How long to each of these cycles last?

When was the last "peak" of each cycle?

Thanks in advance,
Nathan G

The problem is what do you want to believe? What information is available, how is it interpreted, by whom, and for what reason or agenda? The answers to the above ? That is a good question.

The problem- for example,-- the Greenland ice sheet. -- According to Wikipedia --The ice in the current ice sheet is as old as 110,000 years -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet -- and at its thickest it is around 1.9 miles thick. ( It's ice has been used for predicting and studying climate change ) ----- However, a world war two bomber was found in the ice 46 years after it crashed in Greenland (found in 1988 ) it was found under 260 feet of ice. http://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/04/us/wo ... -deep.html.

So lets do some math, and yes I know there are many variables and assumptions -- 1.9 miles x 5,280 feet = 10,032 feet, depth of ice. Bomber buried under 260 feet of ice divided by 46 years = 5.6 feet of ice accumulated per year. Maximum depth of Greenland ice 10,032 feet divided by 5.6 feet of ice accumulation per year = age of Greenland ice or 1,791 years. So do you like 1,791 years or 110,000 years? -- hmmm, and the truth is?

[Nathan G]

The problem is what do you want to believe? What information is available, how is it interpreted, by whom, and for what reason or agenda? The answers to the above ? That is a good question.

Well, when I evaluate a theory, I compare each corollary to what (at least I think) I already know. At the very least, I tend to put historical evidence as superior to archaeological (which is up to opinion). In the case of Climate Change, this is what I'm fairly certain about historically:

- There was a rising of temperature in the third century AD, as implied in records from Rome and Mesoamerica
- There was another rising of temperature in the eleventh century AD, as implied in records from Medieval Europe and Song China. This was key for the colonization of Greenland
- There was a "mini ice age" from the 14th until the 19th centuries, which was probably part of this cycle
- There was a rising of temperatures throughout the 20th century, albeit exaggerated by environmentalists from the 1970s onward
- There appears to be a leveling off or decrease of temperature in the 21st century (hence changing "Global Warming" to "Climate Change"), although the evidence for this is highly suppressed

Mathematically, the length of a cycle would be the distance from one point to a similar point, like from peak to peak. A "peak" is a moment when the temperature stops at its highest point. This is separated (by half the length) from the "trough", which is when the temperature stops at its lowest point. Half-way between a "peak" and "trough" is when the temperature is dropping the fastest, and half-way between a "trough" and a "peak" is when the temperature is growing the fastest.

As far as "agenda" goes, I am looking for a natural cycle that is outside of human control. A cycle whose amplitude is fixed and never higher or lower than historically predicted.

If you could show me any source that spells out a cycle meeting at lest most of this historical evidence, I'd be happy.

Sincerely,
Nathan G

[gerald]

The problem is what do you want to believe? What information is available, how is it interpreted, by whom, and for what reason or agenda? The answers to the above ? That is a good question.

Well, when I evaluate a theory, I compare each corollary to what (at least I think) I already know. At the very least, I tend to put historical evidence as superior to archaeological (which is up to opinion). In the case of Climate Change, this is what I'm fairly certain about historically:

- There was a rising of temperature in the third century AD, as implied in records from Rome and Mesoamerica
- There was another rising of temperature in the eleventh century AD, as implied in records from Medieval Europe and Song China. This was key for the colonization of Greenland
- There was a "mini ice age" from the 14th until the 19th centuries, which was probably part of this cycle
- There was a rising of temperatures throughout the 20th century, albeit exaggerated by environmentalists from the 1970s onward
- There appears to be a leveling off or decrease of temperature in the 21st century (hence changing "Global Warming" to "Climate Change"), although the evidence for this is highly suppressed

Mathematically, the length of a cycle would be the distance from one point to a similar point, like from peak to peak. A "peak" is a moment when the temperature stops at its highest point. This is separated (by half the length) from the "trough", which is when the temperature stops at its lowest point. Half-way between a "peak" and "trough" is when the temperature is dropping the fastest, and half-way between a "trough" and a "peak" is when the temperature is growing the fastest.

As far as "agenda" goes, I am looking for a natural cycle that is outside of human control. A cycle whose amplitude is fixed and never higher or lower than historically predicted.

If you could show me any source that spells out a cycle meeting at lest most of this historical evidence, I'd be happy.

Sincerely,
Nathan G

You sound quite well informed and objective, don't knock yourself. As for pointing out a natural cycle that is outside of human control and meets most of the historical evidence I am at a loss. However, there appears to be a growing body of evidence that climate cycles are generally determined by solar cycles and the gradual change in the Earths orbit and wobble.(http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/milankovitch.html ) This however is complicated by forces outside of the solar system, such as cosmic rays, the movement of the solar system around the galaxy etc. ( http://www.ann-geophys.net/30/9/2012/an ... 9-2012.pdf ) Continuing the complexity is pole shift, the shifting of the Earths poles, which some say could be catastrophic. This could be caused due to the Earths electric and magnetic connection with the sun. Check this site( https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/) for more information. sorry I do not have a specific link. -- Also, I should note that the Earths magnetic poles are relocating and moving at an increasingly rapid rate. ( http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/climat ... nal-pole-r )

Hope the above is of some help.

cheers

[gerald]

An interesting side light regarding research -- from a questionable site? http://starchildproject.com/newsletter/ ... ical-facts

from the above--

A new study has found that Wikipedia entries on the costliest medical conditions contradicted the latest medical research 90% of the time. from ---- This item requires a subscription to JAOA — The Journal of the American Osteopathic Association.

And what do you want to believe?