Financial topics

Investments, gold, currencies, surviving after a financial meltdown
Higgenbotham
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Re: Financial topics

Post by Higgenbotham »

Also from Famous First Bubbles,
Peter Garber wrote:Law sketched a monetary theory in an environment of
unemployed resources. In such an environment, he
argued ([1705] 1760, 190–191), an emission of paper currency
would expand real commerce permanently,
thereby increasing the demand for the new currency
sufficiently to preclude pressure on prices. To finance a
great economic project, an entrepreneur needed only
the power to create claims that served as a means
of payment. Once financed, the project would profit
sufficiently from the employment of previously wasted
resources to justify the public’s faith in its liabilities.
Economic policy advocates and their ideas, good or
bad, float to the surface only when they provide a convenient
pretext for politicians to impose their preferred
schemes.
Just as one recent example, Bernanke has hyperinflated food prices by handing speculators "free" money to bid up prices of exchange traded commodities, in accordance with a bizarre theory he developed that this would somehow prevent another Great Depression. Now with 44 million dependent on food stamps and growing exponentially (fear to dependency), Nancy Pelosi states that food stamps are keeping this economy going. I would state that the Bernanke-Pelosi freak show is even more bizarre than the Law freak show, making it the most bizarre freak show in the modern era and rivaling the freak show put on by the Venetian/Florentine bankers 7 centuries ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t-eycEKXNs
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.

John
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Re: Financial topics

Post by John »

Dear Higgie,
Higgenbotham wrote: > I've been paying closer attention to this e-book on the South Sea
> Bubble in the past week.
Here's the location of the PDF for this book:

[Peter_M._Garber]_Famous_first_bubbles(BookFi.org).pdf

Anyone who saves this on a Windows disk should change the name
to something like the following:

Peter_M_Garber-Famous_first_bubbles-BookFi-org.pdf

This is very interesting as a historical account of the three bubbles,
including the well-researched data on the bubbles.

What's hilarious about this book is the political agenda of the author
-- essentially to deny that bubbles exist.

But his book was published in 2000, just as the Tech bubble ws
crashing. Talk about bad timing. He's very critical of
Kindleberger's book, but it's not surprising that Kindleberger's book
is still being sold as a book, while Garber's book is available for
free as a PDF.

He describes many of the facts that occurred during Tulipomania, but
he completely misinterprets the facts.

His reasoning for saying that there was no "Tulipomania" is that tulip
bulb prices returned to peak levels over the next few years and
decades. That is truly moronic.

If you apply that reasoning to the housing bubble of the 2000s decade,
then there's been no housing bubble, since it's quite possible that
housing prices will return to comparable peak prices during the 2020s.

Of course, in 2000, Garber had no idea that a housing bubble was in
progress. The past decade has completely disproven his analysis.

But there's a far more important point that he completely misses. The
real Tulipomania bubble occurred in tulip futures. Garber reports on
these, but ignores them as irrelevant to the issues.

When you look at the housing bubble, you have to separate two things.
The bubble in housing prices is bad enough.

But the most destructive bubble of all was the credit bubble -- the
securitization of mortgage debt with mortgage-back collateralized debt
oblications (CDOs). There are still tens of trillions of dollars
(nominal value) of these in the vaults of financial institution,
propped up by regulators who demand that they NOT be marked to market,
and that therefore investors should continue to be defrauded on a
daily basis.

In each of the major generational bubbles, the worst of it came from
securitization of debt -- tulip futures, south sea shares, assignats
(French monarchy bankruptcy), railway shares, foreign bonds and stock
shares (1929).

What these people don't understand is that hard assets -- like tulips
and houses -- that have to be physically transferred to and maintained
by a new buyer -- are limited even in bubble situations by the cost of
that maintenance.

But securities are pieces of paper. They require no maintenance. I
can sell a stock share to you for $100, and you can sell it to someone
else for $200 -- and in doing so, you double the market value of all
similar stock shares in the world. You can't do that with a house or
a tulip.

Returning to Garber, his overlooking of the significance of the
securitization of debt is the major flaw that makes his analysis
pretty much worthless.

His treatment of the other two bubbles is, once again, fascinating in
historical detail, but moronic in analysis. Here's his conclusion:
Garber wrote: > Fascinated by the brilliance of grand speculative events,
> observers of financial markets have huddled in the bubble
> interpretation and have neglected an examination of potential
> market fundamentals. The ready availability of a banal explanation
> of the tulipmania, compared to its dominant position in the
> speculative pantheon of economics, is stark evidence of how bubble
> and mania characterizations have served to divert us from
> understanding those outlying events highest in informational
> content. The bubble interpretation has relegated the far more
> important Mississippi and South Sea episodes to a description of
> pathologies of group psychology. Yet these events were a vast
> macroeconomic and financial experiment, imposed on a scale and
> with a degree of control by their main theoretical architects that
> did not occur again until the war economies of this century. True,
> the experiment failed, either because its theoretical basis was
> fundamentally flawed or because its managers lacked the complex
> financial skills required to undertake the day-to-day tactics
> necessary for its consummation. Nevertheless, investors had to
> take positions on its potential success. It is curious that
> students of finance and economists alike have accepted the failure
> of the experiments as proof that the investors were foolishly and
> irrationally wrong. pp 124-25
He's packed so much misinformation into this paragraph, it's hard to
know where to start. He overlooks the importance of the
securitization of tulip futures, which is a fatal flaw in his
analysis, as I've said.

But he DOES recognize the importance of securitization in the other
two bubbles, but calls it, incredibly, "a vast macroeconomic and
financial experiment," and gives as a reason that it failed, "because
its managers lacked the complex financial skills required to undertake
the day-to-day tactics necessary for its consummation."

Of course, in the year 2000, Garber thought this could never happen
again, because we're all so sophisticated, with our complex financial
skills. But what actually happened is that the toxic securities,
created by people who graduated with masters in "financial
engineering" majors in the 1990s, did have the "complex financial
skills," but used them to create synthetic securities that are
mathematically provable to have been fraudulent -- which these people
with masters degrees must have known.

Here are some other quotes that I noted as I skimmed through the book
this morning:
Garber wrote: > To the authorities, the tulip speculation represented an obviously
> unsafe financial speculation in which a legitimate business had
> suddenly degenerated into a bizarre form of gambling. The futures
> trading, which was the center of the activity, was clearly banned
> by the edicts; and in the end, the courts did not enforce deals
> made in the taverns where such trading occurred, all of which were
> repudiated. It is incomprehensible that anyone involved in the
> fluctuating associations of the taverns would have entered such
> unenforceable agreements in the first place unless they were
> merely part of a game. p. 35
"It is incomprehensible" is hilarious today. It's incomprehensible
that the Europeans would loan money to a country which IT IS
GUARANTEED will not pay the money back, but that's what's happening
today with Greece.
Garber wrote: > Even after the collapse of the speculation, they continued to
> trade rare bulbs for “large amounts.”12 To the extent that rare
> bulbs also traded on the futures markets, this implies that no one
> arbitraged the spot and futures markets. Taking a long position in
> spot bulbs required substantial capital resources or access to the
> financial credit markets. To hedge this position with a short sale
> in the futures market would have required the future purchaser to
> have substantial capital or access to sound credit; substantial
> risk of noncompliance with the deal in the futures market would
> have undermined the hedge. Since participants in the futures
> markets faced no capital requirements, there was no basis for an
> arbitrage. During most of the period of the tulip speculation,
> high prices and recorded trading occurred only for the rare
> bulbs. Common bulbs did not figure in the speculation until
> November 1636. p. 46

> Moreover, I cannot separate the spot from the futures deals,
> although all transactions after September 1636 must have been for
> future delivery. p. 49

> The tulip speculation collapsed after the first week of February
> 1637, but there is no explanation for this timing. A general
> suspension of settlement occurred on contracts coming due—that is,
> contracts were not rolled over. p. 61

> Individual bulbs then could still command high prices six years
> after the collapse. Four bulbs whose prices were listed
> individually also appear among the bulbs traded in 1636–1637:
> Witte Croonen, English Admiral, Admirael van der Eyck, and General
> Rotgans (Rotgansen). Witte Croonen were pound goods, and the
> others were piece goods. Table 9.1 presents a comparison of 1636,
> 1637, and 1642 or 1643 prices. Even from the peaks of February
> 1637, the price declines of the rarer bulbs, English Admiral,
> Admiral van der Eyck, and General Rotgans, over the course of six
> years was not unusually rapid. We shall see below that they fit
> the pattern of decline typical of a prized variety. p. 64

> As further evidence of this standard pattern in bulb prices, I now
> turn to the market for hyacinths. p. 71
The market for hyacinths is completely irrelevant. Was there a bubble
in hyacinth futures? This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
Garber wrote: > Kindleberger, in his new edition of Manias, Panics, and Crashes
> (1996), which dominates the popular mind on the history of
> bubbles, added a chapter on tulipmania, which had not been in
> previous editions, to critique my view that the tulipmania was
> based on fundamentals. p. 77

> A Preliminary View: The Mississippi and South Sea Bubbles. The
> financial dynamics of these speculations assumed remarkably
> similar forms. Government connivance was at the heart of these
> schemes. Each involved a company that sought a rapid expansion of
> its balance sheet through corporate takeovers or acquisition of
> government debt, financed by successive issues of shares, and with
> spectacular payoffs to governments. p. 88
He blames "government connivance" for the other two bubbles, as if the
government CAUSED these bubbles -- in contrast to Tulipomania, where
he found no way to blame the government. A truly remarkable book.

Actually, this book creates a great deal of perspective. I now know
why Bernanke said that he didn't believe in bubbles, and I know why
Greenspan was so cautious in declaring the housing bubble to be a
bubble.

John

Higgenbotham
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Re: Financial topics

Post by Higgenbotham »

John wrote:This is very interesting as a historical account of the three bubbles,
including the well-researched data on the bubbles.
This book is the best source of data on the bubbles I've been able to find.

As far as the opinions the author presented, I look at the bubble in "bubble denial" which existed and still exists as further proof that bubbles are indeed real, have occurred, and are still occurring. Anytime more and more extraordinary interventions are required to "save" something, then by definition that something is more and more a bubble. After crash number one, Greenspan lowered interest rates to near zero to "save" something; therefore, that something was a bubble. After crash number two, Bernanke lowered interest rates to zero and did further interventions to "save" something; therefore, that something was/is an even bigger bubble. It can be expected that crash number three will be an even bigger crash. This book seems to be telling us that crash number three could be on the order of the crash of the South Sea Bubble; in other words, perhaps even a 75% loss of value over a month versus the 50% loss that occurred in the 1929 crash.
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.

John
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Re: Financial topics

Post by John »

Higgenbotham wrote: > As far as the opinions the author presented, I look at the bubble
> in "bubble denial" which existed and still exists as further proof
> that bubbles are indeed real, have occurred, and are still
> occurring. Anytime more and more extraordinary interventions are
> required to "save" something, then by definition that something is
> more and more a bubble. After crash number one, if Greenspan
> lowered interest rates to near zero to "save" something, then that
> something was a bubble. After crash number two, if Bernanke
> lowered interest rates to zero and did further interventions to
> "save" something, then that something was/is an even bigger
> bubble. It can be expected that crash number three will be an
> even bigger crash. This book seems to be telling us that crash
> number three could be on the order of the crash of the South Sea
> Bubble; in other words, perhaps even a 75% loss of value over a
> month versus the 50% loss that occurred in the 1929 crash.
That's one of the damn best definitions of "bubble" that
I've seen.

John

P.S.: Actually, this definition would only apply to identifying the
bubble after it's begun to collapse. You still need the Law of Mean
Reversion to identify a bubble while it's still expanding.

Higgenbotham
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by Higgenbotham »

John wrote:Actually, this definition would only apply to identifying the
bubble after it's begun to collapse. You still need the Law of Mean
Reversion to identify a bubble while it's still expanding.
In today's environment it's real tough to even identify when the bubble began to collapse. If someone were to ask me to give the date that the bubble peaked overall, it would be about June 1, 2006, which is when housing prices peaked in the US. As early as the collapse of LTCM in the late 1990s, a lot of analysts were identifying those intervention measures as extraordinary, yet the bubble continued to grow and more seemingly large interventions were done prior to Y2K which appear as a little blip now. After the bursting of the tech bubble, those interventions were considered extraordinary at the time, the bubble continued to grow, and today we can look back at the Greenspan interventions as being relatively tame compared to what occurred later. Looking at it this way, it seems unsurprising that many can see the possibility that the bubble in some form or another can get even bigger. In my view, though, the largest possible bubble can only occur in housing since that's the largest purchase people make and it affects more of the economy. So I believe the peak of the bubble was reached with the peak in housing prices and we are now seeing unsustainable "sub-bubbles" as referred to last year in this thread. If someone said the bubble continued to expand a bit and peaked in 2007, I wouldn't disagree. Another thought might be that the peak of the bubble could be correlated to some measure of derivative exposure.
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.

vincecate
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Re: Financial topics

Post by vincecate »

John wrote:
Higgenbotham wrote: Anytime more and more extraordinary interventions are required to "save" something, then by definition that something is more and more a bubble.
That's one of the damn best definitions of "bubble" that I've seen.
Notice that the extraordinary interventions in the Eurozone and the US are propping up the value of government debt. Buying the bonds is keeping the market price up. The next bubble to pop is the government bond bubble.

Higgenbotham
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Re: Financial topics

Post by Higgenbotham »

After crash number two, Bernanke lowered interest rates to zero and did further interventions to "save" something; therefore, that something was/is an even bigger bubble.
If someone were to ask me to give the date that the bubble peaked overall, it would be about June 1, 2006, which is when housing prices peaked in the US.
Obvious question would be why the apparent discrepancy in these 2 statements I've made today. The first statement refers to the difference between market conditions and market reality as it would exist without intervention. The second statement referes to the absolute size of the bubble. While I think the absolute size of the bubble may be smaller today than it was in 2006/7, the crash potential is in my estimation greater because of the greater distortions from reality that have been created today compared to 2006/7.
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.

John
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Re: Financial topics

Post by John »

Dear Higgie,
Higgenbotham wrote: > Obvious question would be why the apparent discrepancy in these 2
> statements I've made today. The first statement refers to the
> difference between market conditions and market reality as it
> would exist without intervention. The second statement referes to
> the absolute size of the bubble. While I think the absolute size
> of the bubble may be smaller today than it was in 2006/7, the
> crash potential is in my estimation greater because of the greater
> distortions from reality that have been created today compared to
> 2006/7.
There's also the factor that different parts of the bubble collapsed
at different times. The tech bubble collapsed in 2000. The
housing bubble collapsed in 2006. The credit bubble collapsed
in 2007. The stock market bubble that began in 1995 hasn't
collapsed yet, but could do so at any time.

John

aedens
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Re: Financial topics

Post by aedens »

Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:23 pm
http://generationaldynamics.com/forum/v ... bles#p4427

TBTF will prevail since the money pump to them precludes all else since there is no solution since they are the solution in there data induced dream world. Even as the tiny bubbles called the middle class simply cease to exist in the Obama induced myopia the drones refuse to wake. We shall see and we know the GD outcome. We know the hope defered paradox. " One might ask the question, "Aren't American socialists in favor of their own country's survival?"
To answer this question, we must turn to abnormal psychology.

As for the step we are at I convey as a system of Government changed as Egypt did during the seven year famine which cycled 7 years of total devastation in steps in a cycle. We are a few years only into this order of magnatude of staple supply shortages, and States literally burning up with no rain and uncontrollable fires for years. The Earth does cycle and it is just the Political insanity that increases or decreases the magnitude. The Zones must attribute stupidity rather than malice. At this point I see stupidity and malice rising since linkages are breaking down and will peak regionally in order of magnitude which you all are firmly on solid ground to overarching themes. As for Business demands some compounds are sold out. It is impossible with a 4 inch brush to produce a Claude Monet.
Apathy to Fear; <--- Going here. Well Hay is now $186.00 a Ton Now average and over $7.07 a bushel for corn in our area alone. We have a ways to go guys and it is going to be one hell of a ride. Stock up on good's for consumption purposes and we are to help who we can as we should privately. Government must buffer the issues but we must solve them but as the forums convey over the last few years it is going to be very diffucult.

http://mises.org/journals/qjae/pdf/qjae13_4_2.pdf
Last edited by aedens on Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Higgenbotham
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Re: Financial topics

Post by Higgenbotham »

John wrote:
Higgenbotham wrote:
Higgenbotham wrote: Covered all shorts. Thinking about trying again if the S&P can rally
for about 1-2 weeks into the 1310-1340 range.
Went short again today when the S&P went over 1320.
It's amazing how you do this stuff, Higgie.

John
My temporary run of luck has come to an end as the S&P closed at 1353 today and I am still short from just over 1320. An old gambler once told me that gambling is streaky.
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.

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