Generation-X culture vs Boomer culture

[Trevor]

Well, I do think the eastern front in WWII needs more research and that's what I'm in the process of doing. I think it's a first turning reset, but I haven't done enough to be absolutely certain. At a minimum, it was a very devastating war, which seems to delay the cycle and the coming crisis war.

I looked through the "Objections to Generational Dynamics" thread and the possibility was mentioned that WWI was a crisis war for France because it had an extremely high casualty rate. After looking at it, I've concluded that however destructive it was, it was an usually brutal non-crisis war. I've come to this conclusion based on looking at their attitudes, which was similar in many ways to the Germans: fighting a completely pointless war. Towards the end, commanders had to agree to fight a defensive war because French soldiers were about to riot and turn their rifles on their officers, hence the compromise.
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As for the Generation X culture, it seems like you don't need very many people willing to commit fraud to destroy everything because for the ones who do, crime pays because your fellow X-ers will not investigate you. They may hate all generations, but I'd say they hold a special hatred for the Boomers, as they grew up in their shadow.

[Higgenbotham]

I somewhat agree with John on this topic, but would modify the words a bit. Speaking for myself anyway, I can say that I like to extract what I can monetarily from the Boomers, but not by doing anything fraudulent. In the 1990s I was in the real estate business and realized the Boomers had stepped in ahead of my generation (X) and taken the good employment opportunities, purchased housing for low prices, and so on. So I thought to myself, what to do to compensate? I came up with the idea that I should purchase retirement land in areas where the Boomers would want to retire, then sell it to them for inflated prices later. I did considerable research to try to figure out where the Boomers would want to retire and what they would want to buy 10 years hence. I purchased one piece for about 50K in 1998, then put it up for sale as the peak of the bubble approached. A Boomer called me and asked if he could buy it for less than the asking price. I said, yes, but only when the listing runs out and it doesn't run out for 6 months; other than that, it will need to be at full price. He paid the full price about a week later, which was 120K, and borrowed a lot of money to buy it. I felt really good about all aspects of that - the high price he paid, getting full price, the money I made, and the fact that he had to go into debt to buy it.

[xakzen]

I've discussed this at very great length in the book draft that
I've written, and if you have half an hour or so, you may wish
to read it.

http://generationaldynamics.com/gx113

I've tried to distinguish between Gen-Xers and the "Gen-X culture."
It's quite possible that are as many (or as few) crooks in
Generation-X as in other generations, but that isn't what's creating
the Gen-X culture.

What's creating the Gen-X culture is the almost universal attitude
of Gen-Xers not to blame other Gen-Xers for committing crimes. I've
had several bizarre conversations with Gen-Xers on this subject, and
talking to them gives me the feeling that they're in the twilight
zone.

Thank you for the link. I try to read everything I find on your site because I find your insights so thought provoking as well as entertaining to read. (Do you have any other 'hidden' books not linked on the front page? In fact I intend to 'buy' this Draft via your Donate link) I also would love to own a hard copy when it's complete. It's taking me quite a bit longer than 'half an hour', hehe; but that is because each section stirs up so many thoughts and others are actually too painful to read as I am reminded of my own similar software development expediences that I have to stop for fear of doing physical harm to my computer screen! I would love to help you edit it if you were so inclined since I believe it is a critical piece of work for survival in today's computer industry and perhaps work place in general.

Taken separately any one of these stories would befit the plot for an entertaining Greek tragedy; but together in their totality and the reader's (me included) own personal experiences, they tell the story of this "Gen-X Culture" you're describing. What is perplexing to me is that this culture is so pervasive that it seems to infect the behavior of the remaining Silents like Pelosi, Reid, et al., or is that why they still remain because they were a minority of crooked individuals that suddenly 'fit in'? Or in Silent fashion are they "just moving a long, to get along" with the new culture they find?

Anyway, I think I'm calmed down enough to go back to reading your book.

[John]

> Thank you for the link. I try to read everything I find on your
> site because I find your insights so thought provoking as well as
> entertaining to read. (Do you have any other 'hidden' books not
> linked on the front page? In fact I intend to 'buy' this Draft via
> your Donate link) I also would love to own a hard copy when it's
> complete. It's taking me quite a bit longer than 'half an hour',
> hehe; but that is because each section stirs up so many thoughts
> and others are actually too painful to read as I am reminded of my
> own similar software development expediences that I have to stop
> for fear of doing physical harm to my computer screen! I would
> love to help you edit it if you were so inclined since I believe
> it is a critical piece of work for survival in today's computer
> industry and perhaps work place in general.

> Taken separately any one of these stories would befit the plot for
> an entertaining Greek tragedy; but together in their totality and
> the reader's (me included) own personal experiences, they tell the
> story of this "Gen-X Culture" you're describing. What is
> perplexing to me is that this culture is so pervasive that it
> seems to infect the behavior of the remaining Silents like Pelosi,
> Reid, et al., or is that why they still remain because they were a
> minority of crooked individuals that suddenly 'fit in'? Or in
> Silent fashion are they "just moving a long, to get along" with
> the new culture they find?

> Anyway, I think I'm calmed down enough to go back to reading your
> book.

First, thank you very much for the donation. Your support means a
great deal to me.

And yes I would love to have you edit the text. The book badly needs
a thorough edit, and I'd love the help.

As for why the culture is so pervasive, I believe you're right in
saying that the minority of crooked individuals just "fit in."

What makes the Gen-X culture so toxic is that Gen-Xers refuse to
blame, investigate and prosecute each other, even for the most
heinous crimes. This is the culture that attracts what you call
"the minority of crooked individuals." Whereas previously they
might have been inhibited by the fear of prosecution, now they
can get away with anything they want, with no "downside risk" (to
use the popular phrase of the day), and so they do an enormous
amount of damage.

By the way, please share your own software development experiences.

John

[Trevor]

Has anyone ever read the book "Reckless Endangerment"? It's a book written over a period of years documenting everything that happened during the bubble and lead-up to the financial crisis that we're in today. In my opinion, it was actually quite good, however disgusted I was after reading it.

No matter how many times I hear this story, it never ceases to infuriate me. The biggest part of it is that NOBODY is prosecuting or even investigating these people. Yeah, a few people may talk about it, but no one I see is actually doing anything about it. Too many politicians in both parties are benefiting from this arrangement and that's not including X-er investigators refusing to send their comrades to jail. Didn't realize what they were doing, my ass!

After the Enron scandal, it was mentioned that the sign that we entered the crisis period was that many people wanted to put every CEO in jail, even ones who were completely honest. Once everything falls apart, what's that hatred going to Metastasize into?

[Marc]

Has anyone ever read the book "Reckless Endangerment"? It's a book written over a period of years documenting everything that happened during the bubble and lead-up to the financial crisis that we're in today. In my opinion, it was actually quite good, however disgusted I was after reading it.

No matter how many times I hear this story, it never ceases to infuriate me. The biggest part of it is that NOBODY is prosecuting or even investigating these people. Yeah, a few people may talk about it, but no one I see is actually doing anything about it. Too many politicians in both parties are benefiting from this arrangement and that's not including X-er investigators refusing to send their comrades to jail. Didn't realize what they were doing, my ass!

After the Enron scandal, it was mentioned that the sign that we entered the crisis period was that many people wanted to put every CEO in jail, even ones who were completely honest. Once everything falls apart, what's that hatred going to Metastasize into?

Indeed, as John and others have also stated, it is amazing that the sanctions for what has been recently financially orchestrated have been so mild. Being a bit contrarian here, I tend to view the Crisis as really kicking in during 2008 (parallel with Neil Howe), due to what I feel was a truly endangering event of the global economy potentially collapsing, coupled with what seemed to be a sharp changing of the national mood in America and elsewhere. However, the fact that after the Enron scandal, that many wanted to see "all CEOs hauled off to jail" seems to portend that many more Americans were to be found at the time (e.g., many more from the Silent Generation and the G.I. Generation) who felt true moral indignity over what had happened and who helped set a tone of indignity, in my humble opinion.

Today, it seems as if there are many more who are upset about things but who are not really willing to make a huge issue of them; the Tea Party and Occupy movements only actively attract small percentages of Americans. In essence, many more Americans are uneasy today than there were at the turn of the millennium, I feel, but I also feel that today, many more Americans aren't too upset as long as they have Dancing With the Stars, Lady Gaga, and a new IGadget to give them quick entertainment (along with some sort of safety net). However, you ask: "Once everything falls apart, what's that hatred going to metastasize into?" That's a cogent question. I feel that America may be able to hang on for a number of additional years and minimize the economic damage stateside; but if and when doing this becomes overwhelming, we could see some real civil unrest — and people ditching the Lady Gaga and tawdry TV entertainment at long last. The US Government would need to effectively address this sort of Regeneracy event — or there could be a real test to the American nation being able to hold together. —Best regards, Marc

PS: I should add that in this laissez-faire-attitude environment we're presently in, another reason that we're seeing so few prosecutions of the bad folks is that if someone really tries to go after them, he/she may really pay for it in terms of a damaged personal/political career via smear campaigns or other coercive measures. Few are willing to take that risk — and even if they are willing to take it, others out there who want to protect their buddies and/or who share the same fears of smear/damage campaigns will usually help to sufficiently ensure that the crusaders don't get too far in their crusades against the bad folks. That's my opinion there.

[Trevor]

Well, it's actually kind of difficult for me to figure just when the crisis kicked in. The September 11th attacks fizzled out and I remember seeing large anti-American protests before a single bomb hit Afghanistan, screaming that we deserved the attacks. Therefore, I would put it at around 2005, when our government became paralyzed, incompetent (well, more so) and unable to get anything done, even passing a pay raise. (I still laugh at that story)

I just don't see us evading reality for long. Someday, and probably someday soon, something is going to give. We have Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, China, and now Japan to choose from and any of them could reverse an already anemic recovery.

Another thing I've noticed is that one of the reasons people stopped paying attention is just sheer disgust of what's going on. The attitude seems to be: "Screw all of you". Not that I blame them for that, but it is helpful to know what's going on.

What I'm waiting for now is to hear by how much China is increasing their budget, since while most people are looking at Iran and Afghanistan, my eyes are in a different direction.

[Marc]

Another thing I've noticed is that one of the reasons people stopped paying attention is just sheer disgust of what's going on. The attitude seems to be: "Screw all of you". Not that I blame them for that, but it is helpful to know what's going on..

You do have what is likely a plausible variable for the current public apathy regarding all the corruption and the lack of sanctions regarding it, Trevor: namely, disgust and the associated fatigue from it all (at least among a significant part of the public). Another variable that may be contributing to it could be the high level of corporate capture of the media industry that has occurred in the last decade or so, and the industry's recent determination to put out the most insipid, disposable product to simply maximize the bottom line (e.g., "BbBbBbBaaaaaabyyyy!!! by Gugulala ft. Blingamatic & The Fashionistas" or some such thing ), and its likely effect on dumbing down further so much of the uncaring or fatigued public. (And, I would gather that many of those corporate or moneyed interests who are not part of the media/entertainment industry probably don't mind the dumb entertainment and even underhandedly monetarily support it, as it acts as a good distraction to all that corruption taking place.)

Thanks for sharing the great insights. —Best regards, Marc

[Trevor]

Well, I know people who feel that way, ones who used to pay close attention but stopped because of sheer disgust for everyone involved. I have a similar feeling, although it is interesting to see the Boomer-Xer dynamic being played out.

One thing I'm curious about is why about 1/3 of crisis wars happen around the 50-59 year timeline, the majority of which are between 55-59. One possible reason is that there's a spark as the mood transitions during that period. It can either fizzle out or lead to another crisis war. Of course, this is nothing but pure speculation on my part.

[Trevor]

In terms of how different generations feel and think, I'm going to use their opinions on what it still a controversial topic: the Vietnam War.

G.I Generation: "They were our ally against communism and we had to support them." As far as she was concerned, it was as simple as that.

Silent Generation: "We should have fought to win or not fought at all." I didn't get a definite answer on whether or not it was appropriate, but they felt that since we decided to get involved, we should have fought for a victory, not just a war of attrition.

As for the Boomers, it was more divided. On the pro-intervention camp, I heard the line: "We would have won if it wasn't for the stupid generals and the damn media." (I had to clean that up a little bit) For the anti-war side, it was: "It had nothing to do with us. We should never have gotten involved; just look at what we did over there." Both sides ranted on and on about why their view was correct.

As for Generation X, they were mostly unhappy with what the Consciousness Revolution as a whole meant for them, mostly blaming the boomers. "They got everything they ever wanted and they rebelled against it." The response about whether or not we should have intervened was just as divided as the Boomers, although the war itself wasn't as much of an emotional issue as the upheaval was.

And me... I wonder why they are still obsessed with what ended over 35 years ago and why they bring up the comparison whenever we intervene in the world.