21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

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Expand view Topic review: 21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

Re: 21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

by John » Sun May 23, 2010 11:40 am

JR wrote:Oh, and:

Sorry, John, but I don't see the basis for the claim that "Korea's last crisis war was WW II." What about 1950-53? Enormous casualties, especially on the Communist side, along with a disregard for human life and acceptance of mass casualties, especially on the Communist side.

I have heard (maybe wrong) that North Korean soldiers would destroy US tanks with three-man teams: first man would bring Component 1 and be crushed, second man would bring Component 2, attach it and be crushed, third man would bring Component 3, attach it and detonate, being evaporated. Can't beat that for contempt for human life on your own side of the battle.

Then what about subsequent generational developments? The following 5 decades of barracks life and propaganda on the Communist side is very unlike any other historical situation I can think of, except possibly maybe Sparta, but not really.
I've responded to this in a similar question in "Basics of Generational Theory":

http://generationaldynamics.com/forum/v ... 5644#p5644

John

Re: 21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

by JR » Sun May 23, 2010 12:29 am

Oh, and:

Sorry, John, but I don't see the basis for the claim that "Korea's last crisis war was WW II." What about 1950-53? Enormous casualties, especially on the Communist side, along with a disregard for human life and acceptance of mass casualties, especially on the Communist side.

I have heard (maybe wrong) that North Korean soldiers would destroy US tanks with three-man teams: first man would bring Component 1 and be crushed, second man would bring Component 2, attach it and be crushed, third man would bring Component 3, attach it and detonate, being evaporated. Can't beat that for contempt for human life on your own side of the battle.

Then what about subsequent generational developments? The following 5 decades of barracks life and propaganda on the Communist side is very unlike any other historical situation I can think of, except possibly maybe Sparta, but not really.

Re: 21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

by JR » Sat May 22, 2010 11:56 pm

But what are the actual generational events in North Korea?

Tons that we could point to in the US, and elsewhere, where the people could evolve independently of government policy. But my impression of North Korea is a prison state: how is 1956 different from 1976 or 1996? What are the markers? Famine, war? Both seem constant - if not famine, at least severe deprivation; if not war, at least present-time threats.

In the US, for example, the stresses on a 20-year-old were very different in 1936 vs. 1956, etc. But perhaps (again, I may be stereotyping and missing the reality) for the average person in North Korea one decade is much like the next, and the stresses are horrible and constant.

North Korea has no equivalent to the Roaring '20s, or the Pepsi Generation, much less the Long Hot Summer or the Summer of Love. Do they have a Greatest Generation? or a Me Generation? I doubt it.

Re: 21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

by John » Fri May 21, 2010 6:39 pm

JR wrote:So specifically: are they in a Generational Crisis era? who knows? the leaders might be willing to bluff war, and they could force the people into it, but do the people have that inclination?
Korea's last crisis war was WW II, so they are well into a generational Crisis era,
and reunification without a war would be very unlikely.

By contrast, Germany in 1989 was in a generational Unraveling era, when willingness
to compromise is at a peak.

John

Re: 21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

by JR » Fri May 21, 2010 6:10 pm

Also, and I could be wrong about this, North Koreans have been far more isolated from the mainstream than were the Russians or any of the Eastern European satellites. I don't think you could compare it to Cuba, or Poland - certainly not Germany. Maybe Albania.

Also remember their misery and isolation goes back long before 1948.

Compare to Germany: East Germans had a hunger and thirst for reunification. I suspect that if the North Korean government dissolved itself tomorrow and all the surrounding powers proclaimed that they were going to respect the borders and that the people could do absolutely whatever they wanted to do, they might not KNOW what they wanted. Except some food, please. And maybe another change of clothes.

So specifically: are they in a Generational Crisis era? who knows? the leaders might be willing to bluff war, and they could force the people into it, but do the people have that inclination?

Re: 21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

by xakzen » Fri May 21, 2010 12:40 pm

The Grey Badger wrote:We do have experience with formerly imprisoned citizens emerging, blinking, into the sunlight. Let's look at East Germany right after the wall fell for a parallel. It might not be exact, but if you assume that Germany's Crisis ended in 1945 and Korea's in 1952, then it's right on the nose.

If Big Brother dies any time soon, we might well be looking at East Germany revisited.
I like your analogy except at the time the Berlin Wall fell, the Soviet Union was collapsing. That is not the case in Asia as China is still rising (at least militarily) and I suspect we'll see the Chinese invading to prevent a re-unification under some kind of humanitarian guise.

Re: 21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

by The Grey Badger » Fri May 21, 2010 8:20 am

We do have experience with formerly imprisoned citizens emerging, blinking, into the sunlight. Let's look at East Germany right after the wall fell for a parallel. It might not be exact, but if you assume that Germany's Crisis ended in 1945 and Korea's in 1952, then it's right on the nose.

If Big Brother dies any time soon, we might well be looking at East Germany revisited.

Re: 21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

by JR » Fri May 21, 2010 12:02 am

OK, so North Korea is at the center of attention: an interesting pure case for Generational Dynamics.

Since ca. 1955, the people have been segregated from world events, except as filtered through the propaganda machine. What is their generational status?

I'll argue, they're like people in a besieged prison, if there has ever been such a thing. They are in limbo. They may not have evolved, except as they have suffered the manipulations of their beloved oppressors. When the Dear Leader resigns, they will emerge blinking into the sunlight. What then? Don't know the answer, asking the question.

Re: 21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

by OLD1953 » Thu May 20, 2010 11:38 pm

If talking about a crash can lead to a crash, then we've got a crash coming.

http://www.thereformedbroker.com/2010/0 ... akes-over/

Actually, I'm not really expecting the "one day crash" scenario to play out, because the market will just keep closing or reversing trades if that happens. It'll all be "computer errors". But the slow slide for months or years, that can't be prevented, and it's coming.

21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses North of sinking warship

by John » Thu May 20, 2010 7:51 pm

21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses N. Korea of sinking warship

** 21-May-10 News -- S. Korea accuses N. Korea of sinking warship
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 21#e100521


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