12-Oct-18 World View -- Constantinople grants Ukrainian Orthodox Church independence, causing historic split with Russia

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Expand view Topic review: 12-Oct-18 World View -- Constantinople grants Ukrainian Orthodox Church independence, causing historic split with Russia

Re: 12-Oct-18 World View -- Constantinople grants Ukrainian Orthodox Church independence, causing historic split with Ru

by FishbellykanakaDude » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:46 am

CH86 wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:....
But ANY war is your side killing the enemy until they Surrender/Sue for peace/Are destroyed(,) same with the enemy trying to kill your people. But in the case of WW2 that was going on since September 1939 if not earlier. The reason I pinpointed July 1941 as the turning point, and not the more generally recognized turning points of D-Day, Pearl Harbor, Stalingrad, etc; is because around this time the world ceased to recognize the legitimacy of Germany's government.
War (aka "physical persuasion") is the infliction of pain on "the enemy" sufficient to "persuade" the enemy to discontinue being an "irritant" to the "pain giving" party.

Genocidal war is the method that the "pain giving" party uses when they "panic" and believe they must utterly destroy the enemy to save themself. In other words; The object is no longer persuasion, but rather extinction.

Hitler's Germany made it quite clear that they were trying to extinguish every non-German (as per Hitler) culture, which elicited the panic that changed the "mode" of the war from "persuasion" to "extinction".

Hitler's Germany needed to be exterminated.
... The point I'm trying to make was that the world generally rejected the legitimacy of Germany's government and society around this time.

What I'm saying is that by doing so western civilization at that moment entered a period of decline that continues to this day,... because the world rejected the New forms of Human interaction proposed by Germany and Germany's Leaders in June of 1941 and by doing so, western civilization stopped growing culturally.
Any one nation is free to "reject the legitimacy" of anything they choose.

Your implication is that it's not legitimate to have rejected Germany's government's legitimacy.

That is a ludicrous implication. What "protects" a nation (Germany in this case) from having it's government's legitimacy rejected?

I understand that you would prefer it if tyrants, such as yourself, were protected within their own borders by "international law", but it just ain't so, buckeroo!

You piss people off, you get to pay for it. The principle is rather obvious, n'est-ce pas?

Your use of the word "growing" rather alludes me, by the way. Explanation from you on this might be fun! :)
The Contemporary world refused to accept that Germans although the enemy in the war, were soldiers fighting for their country just like in other countries. They refused to accept the very notion that Germans were good people in Poland and Belarus in particular, and that Germany's leaders were regular well Rounded people Just like other countries leaders and citizens. The contemporary world refused to accept the idea that they (the Germans) Just happened [by] (to be) the enemy in the war and that we were simply at war with Them,..
Hmmm,.. how is it that the demonstrated behavior of Hitler's Germany didn't legitimately create the necessary panic in it's enemies to snap the mode of war from "persuasion" to "extermination"?
...instead the majority of the world's citizens instead chose to regard the Germans and their government/leaders in particular, as inhuman, almost demonic beasts.
And the necessary "characterization" of an enemy that is seen as an exterminator that requires preemptive extermination is to remove their humanity, making them demonic non-human beasts, to assuage the guilt of the only very temporarily acceptable tack of genocidal warfare.

Why is this difficult for you to understand?

Re: 12-Oct-18 World View -- Constantinople grants Ukrainian Orthodox Church independence, causing historic split with Ru

by CH86 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:07 pm

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
CH86 wrote:
Guest wrote:...
Boomers are incapable of understanding that there were atrocities on all sides during the war (WW2). Germans were good people during the war. Once a Civilization stops permitting new ideas from being incorporated, it begins to decline. In that regard the true turning point of WW2 wasn't D-day, not Kursk, not Stalingrad, not even pearl harbor as well as the Moscow battle which occurred just before the Japanese bombed pearl harbor. The true turning point was July 1941 when the world for some reason rejected the new forms of human relations recently proposed by Germany in June 1941, roosevelt essentially oriented US policy around achieving what would become regime change and unconditional surrender of Germany and Japan at this time, even though we were not even in the war yet. At the same time the second and later waves of soviet troops for some unknown reason did not surrender to the Germans even when defeated even though the first wave of soviet troops had surrendered to the Germans in droves after being defeated in the beginning weeks of the eastern war.
You're quite wrong as to "boomers" not understanding that atrocities were committed on both sides.

..they just don't like the fact, and see no need to "implicate themselves" (their side) when "they won".

You are quite right that the "end of the war" started when (nearly) total war was accepted as "the thing to do" by the war planners.

And that's the whole point of what REALLY makes a "Genocidal Period Crisis War" (a GD Crisis War). Until people really believe that their very survival (and/or their "cultural survival") is credibly threatened, they try as hard as they can to "kick the can down the road". Once they do believe the threat then genocide becomes acceptable.

But genocide is ALWAYS and ONLY an expedient (and quickly regretted by "normal society"), and trying to make it "normal" will devour the proponent, sending them into infamy and the woodchipper,.. if one is handy.
But ANY war is your side killing the enemy until they Surrender/Sue for peace/Are destroyed same with the enemy trying to kill your people. But in the case of WW2 that was going on since September 1939 if not earlier. The reason I pinpointed July 1941 as the turning point, and not the more generally recognized turning points of D-Day, Pearl Harbor, Stalingrad, etc; is because around this time the world ceased to recognize the legitimacy of Germany's government. Another reason I mention July 1941 as, and not the beginning of Barbarossa on June 22 is that the initial reaction by observers in the first two weeks or so(as well as both sides expectations) was often informed by the said observers biases (examples: "it's another blitzkrieg", "two thieves turning against one another", "Germans would crush Soviet Russia in a matter of weeks" , "The soviets would repulse the fascists easily"; etc). However by Mid and Late July 1941 the actual war and campaign was developing and the world began to ponder the practical implications of Barbarossa and the new war on the eastern front. The point I'm trying to make was that the world generally rejected the legitimacy of Germany's government and society around this time. What I'm saying is that by doing so western civilization at that moment entered a period of decline that continues to this day. And this is because the world rejected the New forms of Human interaction proposed by Germany and Germany's Leaders in June of 1941 and by doing so, western civilization stopped growing culturally. The Contemporary world refused to accept that Germans although the enemy in the war, were soldiers fighting for their country just like in other countries. They refused to accept the very notion that Germans were good people in Poland and Belarus in particular, and that Germany's leaders were regular well Rounded people Just like other countries leaders and citizens. The contemporary world refused to accept the idea that they (the Germans) Just happened by the enemy in the war and that we were simply at war with Them, instead the majority of the world's citizens instead chose to regard the Germans and their government/leaders in particular, as inhuman, almost demonic beasts.

Re: 12-Oct-18 World View -- Constantinople grants Ukrainian Orthodox Church independence, causing historic split with Ru

by FishbellykanakaDude » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:09 pm

Yada yada wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
Guest wrote:"If there is an argument that any and every person within any particular culture is evil, then I'd have to disagree with that argument, and would be VERY interested to see that argument defended."

Stop being stupid for just one second. Your holier than thou crap is moronic. This sentence should be tattooed on your forehead like the Mark of Cain. What a corny thing to say. Okay, I have wasted enough of my time on you. Now put on your pink pussy hat and bang your head against a brick wall until you are dead.
<chuckle!>

So you're not into defending your statements/opinions? That sounds about par for ya! :)

Assume that I am being stupid (which you apparently do, so that shouldn't be too hard) for a moment, and explain to me where what I said is "less than helpful or intelligent".

What is the basic disagreement you have with my "point of view", and why should I word things differently?

Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it! :)
Dude, never run for office. You wouldn't win. You must just be doing all of this as some kind of joke.
You are absolutely right, My Dude! :) <chuckle!>

I've NO interest in running for anything, other than downwind at a good clip on my boat in the tropics.

I comment here because I enjoy blithering, fully exhibiting my own peculiar sense of "coherence", for the "pleasure" and "edification" of whomever it is that is in the local vicinity, regardless of whether they're there (here) voluntarily or being forced by their handlers at the communicariat (?), aka "Co-Intel-Pro HQ", to use this forum as a "channel" for propaganda purposes.

..and this place just NEEDS more funny-ish animated GIF's. Nobody can POSSIBLY argue with that!

Aloha nui, my hui...! Nā mahalo īa ʻoukou. :)
Image

Re: 12-Oct-18 World View -- Constantinople grants Ukrainian Orthodox Church independence, causing historic split with Ru

by FishbellykanakaDude » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:41 pm

CH86 wrote:
Guest wrote:...
Boomers are incapable of understanding that there were atrocities on all sides during the war (WW2). Germans were good people during the war. Once a Civilization stops permitting new ideas from being incorporated, it begins to decline. In that regard the true turning point of WW2 wasn't D-day, not Kursk, not Stalingrad, not even pearl harbor as well as the Moscow battle which occurred just before the Japanese bombed pearl harbor. The true turning point was July 1941 when the world for some reason rejected the new forms of human relations recently proposed by Germany in June 1941, roosevelt essentially oriented US policy around achieving what would become regime change and unconditional surrender of Germany and Japan at this time, even though we were not even in the war yet. At the same time the second and later waves of soviet troops for some unknown reason did not surrender to the Germans even when defeated even though the first wave of soviet troops had surrendered to the Germans in droves after being defeated in the beginning weeks of the eastern war.
You're quite wrong as to "boomers" not understanding that atrocities were committed on both sides.

..they just don't like the fact, and see no need to "implicate themselves" (their side) when "they won".

You are quite right that the "end of the war" started when (nearly) total war was accepted as "the thing to do" by the war planners.

And that's the whole point of what REALLY makes a "Genocidal Period Crisis War" (a GD Crisis War). Until people really believe that their very survival (and/or their "cultural survival") is credibly threatened, they try as hard as they can to "kick the can down the road". Once they do believe the threat then genocide becomes acceptable.

But genocide is ALWAYS and ONLY an expedient (and quickly regretted by "normal society"), and trying to make it "normal" will devour the proponent, sending them into infamy and the woodchipper,.. if one is handy.

Re: 12-Oct-18 World View -- Constantinople grants Ukrainian Orthodox Church independence, causing historic split with Ru

by Yada yada » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:19 pm

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
Guest wrote:"If there is an argument that any and every person within any particular culture is evil, then I'd have to disagree with that argument, and would be VERY interested to see that argument defended."

Stop being stupid for just one second. Your holier than thou crap is moronic. This sentence should be tattooed on your forehead like the Mark of Cain. What a corny thing to say. Okay, I have wasted enough of my time on you. Now put on your pink pussy hat and bang your head against a brick wall until you are dead.
<chuckle!>

So you're not into defending your statements/opinions? That sounds about par for ya! :)

Assume that I am being stupid (which you apparently do, so that shouldn't be too hard) for a moment, and explain to me where what I said is "less than helpful or intelligent".

What is the basic disagreement you have with my "point of view", and why should I word things differently?

Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it! :)
Dude, never run for office. You wouldn't win. You must just be doing all of this as some kind of joke.

Re: 12-Oct-18 World View -- Constantinople grants Ukrainian Orthodox Church independence, causing historic split with Ru

by CH86 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:48 pm

Guest wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:Russians are so evil....

Image

Отава Ё
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wjLI2eslv8
Germans are so evil...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OQxVW2vDJw
Boomers are incapable of understanding that there were atrocities on all sides during the war (WW2). Germans were good people during the war. Once a Civilization stops permitting new ideas from being incorporated, it begins to decline. In that regard the true turning point of WW2 wasn't D-day, not Kursk, not Stalingrad, not even pearl harbor as well as the Moscow battle which occurred just before the Japanese bombed pearl harbor. The true turning point was July 1941 when the world for some reason rejected the new forms of human relations recently proposed by Germany in June 1941, roosevelt essentially oriented US policy around achieving what would become regime change and unconditional surrender of Germany and Japan at this time, even though we were not even in the war yet. At the same time the second and later waves of soviet troops for some unknown reason did not surrender to the Germans even when defeated even though the first wave of soviet troops had surrendered to the Germans in droves after being defeated in the beginning weeks of the eastern war.

Re: 12-Oct-18 World View -- Constantinople grants Ukrainian Orthodox Church independence, causing historic split with Ru

by FishbellykanakaDude » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:07 pm

Guest wrote:"If there is an argument that any and every person within any particular culture is evil, then I'd have to disagree with that argument, and would be VERY interested to see that argument defended."

Stop being stupid for just one second. Your holier than thou crap is moronic. This sentence should be tattooed on your forehead like the Mark of Cain. What a corny thing to say. Okay, I have wasted enough of my time on you. Now put on your pink pussy hat and bang your head against a brick wall until you are dead.
<chuckle!>

So you're not into defending your statements/opinions? That sounds about par for ya! :)

Assume that I am being stupid (which you apparently do, so that shouldn't be too hard) for a moment, and explain to me where what I said is "less than helpful or intelligent".

What is the basic disagreement you have with my "point of view", and why should I word things differently?

Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it! :)

Re: 12-Oct-18 World View -- Constantinople grants Ukrainian Orthodox Church independence, causing historic split with Ru

by FishbellykanakaDude » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:00 pm

Guest wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
Guest wrote: Germans are so evil...

http s://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OQxVW2vDJw
:)

Propaganda is as propaganda does,.. 'tis true.

But consider what was being "advocated" in those ...
So you would agree that Israeli Jews are also capable of evil? Or that at least they also commit evil acts? (And I don't just mean lone individuals. People act collectively as countries.)
Any human is capable of evil. Is that REALLY a controversial thing to say? :)

Masses of people are not PEOPLE, of course, but masses of people do tend to act in "least common denominator" ways that emphasize the "emotions" of fear, panic and resentment.

What is your point? No one, and no group, is immune to acting badly (some degree of evilness).

Re: 12-Oct-18 World View -- Constantinople grants Ukrainian Orthodox Church independence, causing historic split with Ru

by Guest » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:13 am

Guest wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
Guest wrote: Germans are so evil...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OQxVW2vDJw
:)

Propaganda is as propaganda does,.. 'tis true.

But consider what was being "advocated" in those two examples of "propaganda".

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything other than that there are actual humans with their actual culture (nationality) to consider, and that neither typical humans nor organic cultures are evil per se.

It's rather easy to get caught up in the competition of cultures. It's rather easy to lose sight of the real people within our various cultures.

If there is an argument that any and every person within any particular culture is evil, then I'd have to disagree with that argument, and would be VERY interested to see that argument defended.

Is anyone willing to defend that argument? <a question directed at anyone "listening in">
So you would agree that Israeli Jews are also capable of evil? Or that at least they also commit evil acts? (And I don't just mean lone individuals. People act collectively as countries.)
Yeah, I would. Jews aren't special. (Cue the Schindler's List soundtrack...)

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