26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

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Expand view Topic review: 26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

Re: 26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

by FishbellykanakaDude » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:18 pm

Guest JP wrote:A decent response, fishbelly. But, I still disagree with almost everything you said. How would the RC Church descending into shamanism (Tengriism) even be possible? That wouldn't be Catholic. That wouldn't even be Christian. I think disbanding the church would be preferable.
Well, that's kinda the trick, isn't it? :)

One can either choose to accept that the Church contains the "correct things" that all "religions" and philosophies/thought of all humans exhibit, or one doesn't.

It's a choice. A choice that can only be made "in faith", as there is (as yet) no way to evaluate the available data to prove that that is a correct choice.

I choose to accept that the Church is "the territory" and not some transcribed and translated "map" of the territory.

Maps are very very useful, but they aren't well used if they are confused with their representative underlying reality.

Of course, that means that I have the unenviable task of having to PHYSICALLY walk an absurdly huge amount of actual territory (ground) to see how it actually does fit together. Oh well. Ya makes your choices, ya gets to live with 'em!

The best solution would be to splinter the church into different churches like the Orthodox are doing right now (or have always kind of done anyway). Then you could have Pre-Vatican II Catholics forming one church under a devout Pope (hopefully a return to Crusader Era church militant); another RC church could be openly homosexual. :roll: The Episcopal Church split over homosexuality and formed two separate churches (the other is Anglican). Both are part of the Anglican Union. Personally, I think homosexuals serving in the church is ridiculous. No wonder the Muslims openly despise and laugh at us.
That IS what is happening, whether it's "officially recognized" or not, as is perfectly predictable and (probably) necessary.

Therefore, why suggest something that is happening anyway?

If one sees the Church as containing all the "good parts" of all the factions in the first place, then the only issue (other than staying alive in the midst of fervent zealots) is to figure out (or agree on) what "the good parts" are.

And I'm not suggesting some syncratic religion (constructed via syncratism) cobbled together to "force fit" ideas together. I'm suggesting paring down the "core" religion to "agreeable (quite vague) principles", and allowing the expression of those principles (and those principles "extensions") to be created by any culture interested in doing so.

I also believe the western world is becoming a bunch of New Age loons who are creating their own religions that allow them to wallow in degeneracy and feel good about.
Agreed. :) One of the "universal principles" might well be that it is good to listen to people who complain that some "excuse for degeneracy" is wrong. That would obviously be an iterative process, which requires sincerity and accurate description-of-things, and an actual desire to understand and "make things better".
Also, they create new faiths so that they don't face the prospect of going to Hell when they die. (Although they will anyway.) Islam will sweep everyone aside. Women, being women, will accept hijab and sexual slavery to survive. The 'men' will be killed. Europe will become Muslim, but remain racially and ethnically divided. Even Islam has never been able to totally overcome tribalism. Europe will resemble Somalia. I hope to be dead before all of this happens.
My bet is that you will be, because that scenario ain't hap'nin'. Yay!

On the "going to hell" thing; I also believe that you can indeed condemn yourself to eternal separation from God. And I do mean actual "irrevocable personal choice" through all time.
You might have a decent core, fishy, but you are so smug and strange it's hard for me to tell.
I get that a lot. <chuckle!>

I am smug, in that I do truly believe this "religion-y" stuff that I talk about, and it's quite obvious that me and strangeness are VERY old friends. :)

But,.. in my own defense, I relish being asked any seemingly crazy-assed question, and I'll be the first to admit that the words that emerge from me could very well be completely wrong (in some but not ALL ways), or at least VERY easy to misinterpret.
I wish you wouldn't talk in riddles so much; you might really have interesting insights to share with everyone.

...
My riddles are not very difficult to "solve", because I'm really bad at making riddles. They simply, and rather obviously, point at "scenarios" that pose a question to be thought about.

Most of what I say are just descriptions of "scenarios" (things) as I see them, presented so as to elicit reciprocal descriptions from my conversation partners which I can then respond to, ad infinitum.

Many things I say are simply attempts at "comic relief". My sense of humor is a bit weird, granted, but I do try to tie most humor back to the subject of inquiry on the table.

..sometimes I fail. <chuckle> Oh well... it's a numbers game. Can't "win" if ya don't play...

Aloha nui ʻoe! :) <shaka!>

Re: 26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

by Guest JP » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:55 am

A decent response, fishbelly. But, I still disagree with almost everything you said. How would the RC Church descending into shamanism (Tengriism) even be possible? That wouldn't be Catholic. That wouldn't even be Christian. I think disbanding the church would be preferable.

The best solution would be to splinter the church into different churches like the Orthodox are doing right now (or have always kind of done anyway). Then you could have Pre-Vatican II Catholics forming one church under a devout Pope (hopefully a return to Crusader Era church militant); another RC church could be openly homosexual. :roll: The Episcopal Church split over homosexuality and formed two separate churches (the other is Anglican). Both are part of the Anglican Union. Personally, I think homosexuals serving in the church is ridiculous. No wonder the Muslims openly despise and laugh at us.

I also believe the western world is becoming a bunch of New Age loons who are creating their own religions that allow them to wallow in degeneracy and feel good about. Also, they create new faiths so that they don't face the prospect of going to Hell when they die. (Although they will anyway.) Islam will sweep everyone aside. Women, being women, will accept hijab and sexual slavery to survive. The 'men' will be killed. Europe will become Muslim, but remain racially and ethnically divided. Even Islam has never been able to totally overcome tribalism. Europe will resemble Somalia. I hope to be dead before all of this happens.

You might have a decent core, fishy, but you are so smug and strange it's hard for me to tell. I wish you wouldn't talk in riddles so much; you might really have interesting insights to share with everyone.

P.S. John, I'm buying your book when I get a chance to next week.

Re: 26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

by FishbellykanakaDude » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:48 pm

Guest JP wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:..is "A" scumbag,.. not is "AN" scumbag.

[im g]http://mahjqa.com/stuff/grammarnazi.gif[/img]

Which, of course, invalidates your entire train of reasoning.

..'though, it doesn't actually.


The Church is not what you think it is. It just is. It is and always has been what it is and what it always will be.

You either admit that you're a part of it, or you don't, but it doesn't care about your choice in the least. You are.

It is possible for a person to hold themself away from it, by force, temporarily or permanently, but it never gives up being what it is, which is your being part of it, because,... you are.

Don't confuse the map for the terrain. The map is eventually ugly and torn and stained and quite useless past the edges,.. but the terrain is literally edgeless, and "beautiful".

"Beautifulness" may be in the eye of the beholder, truly, but anything is more beautiful than the nothing beyond the edge of the map.

It's OK to be horrified by the "beauty" of some parts of the world, but you can't tell the world what to be. Those horrors are there for a reason. That reason is the not horrifying beauty that will eventually be.

Be.

And be amused always.
So you are saying the Church is above the importance of any mere mortals, even if they are young children being repeatedly raped by priests? So having your young children raped is just part of being Catholic? Oh, wait. I'm sure you didn't mean that. You mean whatever suits you best at the moment. Fuck you.
What I'm saying is that the Church is not what you think it is.

That bunch of folks who organize and operate the very human institution that is called the "Official Catholic Church™" (address Vatican) is not the Church. That institution, and it's material and human constituent parts, is a necessary and sorta-kinda permanent "thing" that gives "focus" to the (universal) membership of the Church, but it is not the Church qua "the Church" (the Church in essence).

If a person commits a temporal crime, they should face temporal justice. By temporal I mean "non spiritual". Molesters commit societal/temporal crime, and should face societal/temporal judgement.

Now, what other questions do you have regarding what it means to be a Catholic (aka a human person)?

This is why the Catholic Church should be declared a business, like Scientology, and banned from operating in the countries where they have covered up the rape of children. (Which would mean every country on the face of the Earth they have ever set foot in.) It's crappy people like you that have made this abuse possible.

Declaring the Catholic Church™ a business would be fine with me if that's what the local society chooses to do.

The Church you imagine as being "the Church in fact" deserves whatever "persecution" (rightly or wrongly) people are justified in heaping upon it.

But that speaks only of the "worldly mask" that is mistaken for the actual Church, and not of the Church in reality.

You must remember that this Catholic (moi!) is of the opinion that (some trippy version of) Tengriism is the future of the (Catholic) Church! Digging deeper into THAT weird seeming-incongruity might shed some light into the meaning of the "bunch of words" that I continue to write.

..and I abjectly agree with you about Scientology! :)

There is nothing beautiful about the modern Catholic Church. Even modern churches are ugly.

Pope Francis has no moral authority left. A Pope without moral authority. That's where the Catholic Church is today. If Pope Francis had any sense of honor, guilt or remorse, he would resign.
I'd say you're probably fully justified (and even likely correct!) to hold the opinion that the Pope is a goof and should resign, but if you're really dedicated to that proposition then you should gather up your own huge mass of people to force him to do so.

I personally don't consider it THAT much of a "problem" directly impacting "my world" to put that much effort into seeing the Pope deposed, but to each his own.

..and I also abjectly SUPER agree with you about "modern" Catholic architectural choices! Yuck..!!

Nā mahalo a me aloha īa ʻoe, dude or dudette! :) <shaka nui!>

Re: 26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

by FishbellykanakaDude » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:12 pm

Guest wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:..is "A" scumbag,.. not is "AN" scumbag.

[im g]http://mahjqa.com/stuff/grammarnazi.gif[/img]

Which, of course, invalidates your entire train of reasoning.

..'though, it doesn't actually. ...
You do realize that attacking the validity of a post because of a couple of typos is ridiculous. It also makes you a pathetic douche bag.
It was a joke, which apparently was not clearly enough shown to be a joke as you didn't seem to understand that is was a joke.

I would rather have thought that the sentence below the "non joke" joke would have made that clear, but there's no accounting for lack of reading comprehension, I suppose?

Thanks for allowing me to clear that up! :) Aloha buckeroo! <shaka!>

Re: 26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

by Guest 5 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:08 am

The Catholic Church has very little pull left in Europe. Ever lived in Europe? No one goes to church but black immigrants from the Caribbean. Europeans are drug addled and sex crazed. Even middle aged Europeans are covered in tattoos. Europe makes America look like Saudi Arabia. I have never met a more amoral and sloppy bunch of people. Drugs and prostitution are the norm in Europe. Eastern Europe is even worse.

I lived in a tiny village in France for awhile near the Spanish border in 2005. The church in the village had an old woman in charge of it (an unpaid volunteer) that would unlock the front doors, sweep off the steps, and then return in the late afternoon to lock it up. In all the time I lived there, I never saw a priest. There were no masses at the church, and I never saw anyone enter it. It was over a hundred years old. It's pretty dire when even old people who are at the end of their lives no longer bother to attend mass. No one cares anymore.

Europe is a dried up husk. The Catholic Church is a reflection of that. The Pope doesn't even care anymore what people think or do about his behavior. I think he can sense that the game is up.

Pope Francis is probably the most cynical man in the world. When he was elected, he ostentatiously rode on the bus back to the offices of the Vatican with the other cardinals. I remember thinking what a fraud this Francis is. I was right.

Re: 26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

by Guest JP » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:33 am

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:..is "A" scumbag,.. not is "AN" scumbag.

Image

Which, of course, invalidates your entire train of reasoning.

..'though, it doesn't actually.


The Church is not what you think it is. It just is. It is and always has been what it is and what it always will be.

You either admit that you're a part of it, or you don't, but it doesn't care about your choice in the least. You are.

It is possible for a person to hold themself away from it, by force, temporarily or permanently, but it never gives up being what it is, which is your being part of it, because,... you are.

Don't confuse the map for the terrain. The map is eventually ugly and torn and stained and quite useless past the edges,.. but the terrain is literally edgeless, and "beautiful".

"Beautifulness" may be in the eye of the beholder, truly, but anything is more beautiful than the nothing beyond the edge of the map.

It's OK to be horrified by the "beauty" of some parts of the world, but you can't tell the world what to be. Those horrors are there for a reason. That reason is the not horrifying beauty that will eventually be.

Be.

And be amused always.
So you are saying the Church is above the importance of any mere mortals, even if they are young children being repeatedly raped by priests? So having your young children raped is just part of being Catholic? Oh, wait. I'm sure you didn't mean that. You mean whatever suits you best at the moment. Fuck you. This is why the Catholic Church should be declared a business, like Scientology, and banned from operating in the countries where they have covered up the rape of children. (Which would mean every country on the face of the Earth they have ever set foot in.) It's crappy people like you that have made this abuse possible.

There is nothing beautiful about the modern Catholic Church. Even modern churches are ugly.

Pope Francis has no moral authority left. A Pope without moral authority. That's where the Catholic Church is today. If Pope Francis had any sense of honor, guilt or remorse, he would resign.

Re: 26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

by Guest » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:49 am

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:..is "A" scumbag,.. not is "AN" scumbag.

Image

Which, of course, invalidates your entire train of reasoning.

..'though, it doesn't actually.


The Church is not what you think it is. It just is. It is and always has been what it is and what it always will be.

You either admit that you're a part of it, or you don't, but it doesn't care about your choice in the least. You are.

It is possible for a person to hold themself away from it, by force, temporarily or permanently, but it never gives up being what it is, which is your being part of it, because,... you are.

Don't confuse the map for the terrain. The map is eventually ugly and torn and stained and quite useless past the edges,.. but the terrain is literally edgeless, and "beautiful".

"Beautifulness" may be in the eye of the beholder, truly, but anything is more beautiful than the nothing beyond the edge of the map.

It's OK to be horrified by the "beauty" of some parts of the world, but you can't tell the world what to be. Those horrors are there for a reason. That reason is the not horrifying beauty that will eventually be.

Be.

And be amused always.

You do realize that attacking the validity of a post because of a couple of typos is ridiculous. It also makes you a pathetic douche bag.

Re: 26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

by FishbellykanakaDude » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:28 am

..is "A" scumbag,.. not is "AN" scumbag.

Image

Which, of course, invalidates your entire train of reasoning.

..'though, it doesn't actually.


The Church is not what you think it is. It just is. It is and always has been what it is and what it always will be.

You either admit that you're a part of it, or you don't, but it doesn't care about your choice in the least. You are.

It is possible for a person to hold themself away from it, by force, temporarily or permanently, but it never gives up being what it is, which is your being part of it, because,... you are.

Don't confuse the map for the terrain. The map is eventually ugly and torn and stained and quite useless past the edges,.. but the terrain is literally edgeless, and "beautiful".

"Beautifulness" may be in the eye of the beholder, truly, but anything is more beautiful than the nothing beyond the edge of the map.

It's OK to be horrified by the "beauty" of some parts of the world, but you can't tell the world what to be. Those horrors are there for a reason. That reason is the not horrifying beauty that will eventually be.

Be.

And be amused always.

Re: 26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

by Guest JP » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:44 am

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:Ok, ok, ok,.. Christianity ain't goin' noplace. Don't be such worry warts.

I'm thoroughly Catholic, which just means "Spiritually Super-Dooper Generalist/Universalist" and am convinced that Tengriism (as it were) is the destination of the future for the Church, which we all belong to anyway, by default, and can't TOTALLY get separated from even if we try really REALLY HARD. (Although you CAN put yourself into the position of eternally damning yourself, if you work on it really really REALLY REALLY HARD.)

The Pope is just a necessary position that has to continue, in one form or another, until the end of time. D'uh.

The Church fracturing,... it's happened before, it'll happen again. In fact it's "what's been happening for a long LONG time!" No biggy.

..and that the heck does this have to do with Ebola?
It has nothing to do with Ebola, but the poster wanted to discuss it because John hasn't talked about the recent revelations and what they might mean (if anything).

Personally, I think Western Europe is finished. Islam will dominate by default because of agnosticism and backsliders like yourself.

Pope Francis is repulsive liar. His complete disregard for church teachings is stunning. Atheists can go to Heaven if they are 'good'? Yes, I saw the Pope comforting the little boy in Italy, and was left cold. Pope Francis seems to be loved by everyone but devout Catholics. Homosexuals, Muslims, atheists, communists, illegal immigrants, Protestants (non-Evangelicals), and people on welfare permanently truly love this scumbag. Pope Francis is an scumbag. Yeah, I'm saying it.

Pope Francis hasn't turned a blind eye to the rape of children in the church, he doesn't care about what happened, and instead has rehabilitated key clergy involved in it. I hope the Catholic Church dies completely. It's useless now. What salvation can a church lead by the likes of him and his cronies offer anyone? Are you kidding me?

Young Europeans raised in godless homes are turning to Islam. Several key ISIS fighters were born Christian (at least nominally) and they felt lost.

The Catholic Church is no longer a beacon. It's nothing but another piece of the PC machinery which dominates western culture.

Re: 26-Sep-18 World View -- World Health Organization fears 'perfect storm' could spread Ebola rapidly in DR Congo

by FishbellykanakaDude » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:42 pm

Ok, ok, ok,.. Christianity ain't goin' noplace. Don't be such worry warts.

I'm thoroughly Catholic, which just means "Spiritually Super-Dooper Generalist/Universalist" and am convinced that Tengriism (as it were) is the destination of the future for the Church, which we all belong to anyway, by default, and can't TOTALLY get separated from even if we try really REALLY HARD. (Although you CAN put yourself into the position of eternally damning yourself, if you work on it really really REALLY REALLY HARD.)

The Pope is just a necessary position that has to continue, in one form or another, until the end of time. D'uh.

The Church fracturing,... it's happened before, it'll happen again. In fact it's "what's been happening for a long LONG time!" No biggy.

..and that the heck does this have to do with Ebola?

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