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Expand view Topic review: Dakardii's topic

Re: Dakardii's topic

by Cool Breeze » Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:01 pm

DaKardii wrote:
Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:17 am
Xeraphim1 wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:27 pm
Okay, moving on again. Now, bearing in mind that we have a paranoid, xenophobic country which sees the US as a rival at the least and that the work being done at this state run laboratory is considered sensitive at the least, what do you think are the odds that the CCP allowed persons from the US to run experiments that resulted in the release of a pandemic?
This... is a very good point. In fact, I don't think I can refute this one.

I concede.
If you (you all haven't) don't address EcoHealth and its objectives (globally), you haven't treated the subject even close to its fullness. A lot of the analysis on this forum is lacking because of motivation questions such as the above, not data or conclusions from the facts on the ground.

Re: Dakardii's topic

by Tom Mazanec » Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:48 am

Sorry about that, John.
I can’t do anything about that of course except wish you well and say one of my prayers (which you probably think useless).

Re: Dakardii's topic

by John » Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:43 am

Hip pain, back pain, sciatica, related issues

Re: Dakardii's topic

by DaKardii » Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:17 am

Xeraphim1 wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:27 pm
Okay, moving on again. Now, bearing in mind that we have a paranoid, xenophobic country which sees the US as a rival at the least and that the work being done at this state run laboratory is considered sensitive at the least, what do you think are the odds that the CCP allowed persons from the US to run experiments that resulted in the release of a pandemic?
This... is a very good point. In fact, I don't think I can refute this one.

I concede.

Re: Dakardii's topic

by Cool Breeze » Fri Mar 11, 2022 8:48 pm

Xeraphim1 wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:15 pm
Cool Breeze wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:32 pm
Xeraphim1 wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:55 pm


The thing is that you WANT to believe these things and your mind will spin anything in this direction. We've seen this from you regularly so you're not very believable.
If you honestly watched that and didn't think that was the most obvious form of deception and child-like lying, I cannot take a single post of yours seriously again, you have a major flaw in understanding humans or information. The Nuland lies (again) and Rubio line of propaganda re-direction was so disgusting and obvious that if you don't pick that up, no one can help you. And you should not be taken seriously as an analyst of American, or international politics. It's that bad.
I am completely unconcerned about your opinion of my posts since I wrote you off as a crank a long time ago. I think your disapproval should be worn as a badge of honor.
Good, at least your have gone public with your foolishness. DaKardii is right. Wear your badge of lies.

My words and ideas stand. Yours fall, and are already gone. As foolishness.

Re: Dakardii's topic

by Xeraphim1 » Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:27 pm

DaKardii wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:38 pm
Xeraphim1 wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:09 pm
Let me get this straight, cutting edge genetic research and development on diseases was going on at a Chinese government owned laboratory and this was being done under the direct leadership of US personnel with Chinese scientists being the hired help? Does this sound the least bit realistic? Seriously? The Wuhan Institute of Virology is a level four biosafety lab and national governments do not let foreigners run programs at them. Particularly paranoid, xenophobic police states.
Let's also not forget what John has stated many times. The CCP is notoriously reckless and incompetent.

So going by that, it would absolutely not be out of character for the CCP to enter into such an absurd arrangement.
There is a difference. The CCP make bad decisions because those decisions fit with their dogma and internal policies. Claiming the South China Sea fits their internal policies. Putting Uighurs in concentration camps also does. The Great Leap Forward fit their political dogma.

Now, let's set some baselines, yes? Would we agree that the CCP is paranoid? Would we agree that it's xenophobic? Would we agree that it has an incredible need for control over anything economically, militarily, politically or scientifically sensitive? Would you agree with these statements? I think so.

Okay, moving on. Bearing the above facts in mind, do you see the CCP allowing any foreign nation the ability to control anything that it considers sensitive? Would you agree that genetic/biological research at the only level 4 bio containment facility in the country (there is a second one now) would be considered sensitive? Can we agree on that?

Okay, moving on again. Now, bearing in mind that we have a paranoid, xenophobic country which sees the US as a rival at the least and that the work being done at this state run laboratory is considered sensitive at the least, what do you think are the odds that the CCP allowed persons from the US to run experiments that resulted in the release of a pandemic?

You need to apply some logic here. You seem to be assuming a gullible and subservient China that doesn't exist. Again, you WANT these stories to be true for some reason and you're searching for something that can support it. You keep failing. Please stop.

Re: Dakardii's topic

by DaKardii » Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:38 pm

Xeraphim1 wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:09 pm
Let me get this straight, cutting edge genetic research and development on diseases was going on at a Chinese government owned laboratory and this was being done under the direct leadership of US personnel with Chinese scientists being the hired help? Does this sound the least bit realistic? Seriously? The Wuhan Institute of Virology is a level four biosafety lab and national governments do not let foreigners run programs at them. Particularly paranoid, xenophobic police states.
Let's also not forget what John has stated many times. The CCP is notoriously reckless and incompetent.

So going by that, it would absolutely not be out of character for the CCP to enter into such an absurd arrangement.

Re: Dakardii's topic

by DaKardii » Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:34 pm

Xeraphim1 wrote:
Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:09 pm
DaKardii wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:30 pm


The DARPA leaks from January established that COVID was created in the Wuhan lab, but the project behind it was both established and supervised by the US government, with the Chinese scientists working in the lab being junior partners. The leaks also established that COVID was not intended to be a bioweapon from the outset, which means that the virus' release was due to rogue activity.

It is possible that the US government was behind the virus' release, and it's equally possible that the CCP was behind the virus' release. Both have motives for doing it. But in my humble opinion there is more circumstantial evidence in favor of the former being responsible.

As for the CCP's claim that the virus was brought into Wuhan from outside of China by the US Army, that has indeed been proven false. Which begs the question. Assuming that America was indeed responsible for the virus being released from the Wuhan lab, why would the CCP still intentionally lie and manufacture that other narrative instead?

My guess is that the CCP believes it cannot get out of this looking squeaky clean if it told the truth about what was going on at the Wuhan lab, regardless of who released the virus. Because either way, the CCP was still involved in the virus's very creation. So the CCP would rather tell a narrative where it was not involved in the virus' creation in any way, rather than a narrative where it was involved in the virus' creation but not the one who released the virus.

The real irony about all this is that even if America was indeed responsible, the CCP still ended up being the less honest one regarding what was going on at the Wuhan lab!
Let me get this straight, cutting edge genetic research and development on diseases was going on at a Chinese government owned laboratory and this was being done under the direct leadership of US personnel with Chinese scientists being the hired help? Does this sound the least bit realistic? Seriously? The Wuhan Institute of Virology is a level four biosafety lab and national governments do not let foreigners run programs at them. Particularly paranoid, xenophobic police states.

The actual claims are that the US, through NIH, was funding gain of function research along with the National Science Foundation of China. There are no claims that the US was directing this research and the idea that China would even allow such a thing is ridiculous.

China has lied about the origin of Covid 19 from the very start and has changed its story as some of the lies became completely untenable.

You really need to stop. Not only are the theories you're positing beyond the realm of fiction, they tend to suck the oxygen out of the room. You're becoming a net negative to the conversation. Please stop.
Xeraphim, please read my post again. I explicitly stated that China has been lying about the origin of COVID-19. I also provided an explanation as to why China would still lie about it even if America was indeed behind the virus "leaking" from the Wuhan lab. Furthermore, I stated that China still bears at least partial responsibility for the pandemic no matter who caused the "leak", because China was undisputedly involved in the virus' development.

The only major point of contention between us on this issue is which country we believe actually "leaked" the virus. And given that it's impossible to definitively prove who did it at this time, the only thing we can go with is circumstantial evidence. I made my own guess, and you made your own guess. And those guesses happen to be different. So let's agree to disagree on this, okay?

Meanwhile, I'll concede that it's possible that the National Science Foundation of China (NSFC) had more clout within the project than the DARPA leaks led me to believe. But I still refuse to believe that the NSFC could've taken up enough clout to the point where the NIH had little to no control over the project whatsoever, which is what you seem to be claiming (please correct me if I'm wrong here). The DARPA leaks make it very clear that the project was conceived by scientists working for the US government, and that the only reason China had any involvement to begin with was because those scientists were trying to find a way to get the project going while also complying with Obama's ban on gain-of-function research on American soil. Our scientists came to theirs for help, not the other way around.

Re: Dakardii's topic

by Xeraphim1 » Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:15 pm

Cool Breeze wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:32 pm
Xeraphim1 wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:55 pm
DaKardii wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:41 pm
Russia's claims that the US had biological weapons stationed in Ukraine now appear to be heavily substantiated by an exchange between Victoria Nuland and Marco Rubio during the former's testimony to the Senate on Tuesday.

Video of the exchange can be found here, starting at 3:36 and ending at 4:47.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWAgSBfU3xk

I have two comments to say about this exchange.

First, this further solidifies my suspicion that it was actually the US and not China who unleashed COVID on the world.

Second, I now fear that if the existence of other biological weapons labs or even mere biological research labs are uncovered, it could lead directly to more war. For example, if such a lab was uncovered in Taiwan the CCP could very easily invoke that revelation as a or even the casus belli to invade.
The thing is that you WANT to believe these things and your mind will spin anything in this direction. We've seen this from you regularly so you're not very believable.
If you honestly watched that and didn't think that was the most obvious form of deception and child-like lying, I cannot take a single post of yours seriously again, you have a major flaw in understanding humans or information. The Nuland lies (again) and Rubio line of propaganda re-direction was so disgusting and obvious that if you don't pick that up, no one can help you. And you should not be taken seriously as an analyst of American, or international politics. It's that bad.
I am completely unconcerned about your opinion of my posts since I wrote you off as a crank a long time ago. I think your disapproval should be worn as a badge of honor.

Re: Dakardii's topic

by Xeraphim1 » Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:09 pm

DaKardii wrote:
Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:30 pm


The DARPA leaks from January established that COVID was created in the Wuhan lab, but the project behind it was both established and supervised by the US government, with the Chinese scientists working in the lab being junior partners. The leaks also established that COVID was not intended to be a bioweapon from the outset, which means that the virus' release was due to rogue activity.

It is possible that the US government was behind the virus' release, and it's equally possible that the CCP was behind the virus' release. Both have motives for doing it. But in my humble opinion there is more circumstantial evidence in favor of the former being responsible.

As for the CCP's claim that the virus was brought into Wuhan from outside of China by the US Army, that has indeed been proven false. Which begs the question. Assuming that America was indeed responsible for the virus being released from the Wuhan lab, why would the CCP still intentionally lie and manufacture that other narrative instead?

My guess is that the CCP believes it cannot get out of this looking squeaky clean if it told the truth about what was going on at the Wuhan lab, regardless of who released the virus. Because either way, the CCP was still involved in the virus's very creation. So the CCP would rather tell a narrative where it was not involved in the virus' creation in any way, rather than a narrative where it was involved in the virus' creation but not the one who released the virus.

The real irony about all this is that even if America was indeed responsible, the CCP still ended up being the less honest one regarding what was going on at the Wuhan lab!
Let me get this straight, cutting edge genetic research and development on diseases was going on at a Chinese government owned laboratory and this was being done under the direct leadership of US personnel with Chinese scientists being the hired help? Does this sound the least bit realistic? Seriously? The Wuhan Institute of Virology is a level four biosafety lab and national governments do not let foreigners run programs at them. Particularly paranoid, xenophobic police states.

The actual claims are that the US, through NIH, was funding gain of function research along with the National Science Foundation of China. There are no claims that the US was directing this research and the idea that China would even allow such a thing is ridiculous.

China has lied about the origin of Covid 19 from the very start and has changed its story as some of the lies became completely untenable.

You really need to stop. Not only are the theories you're positing beyond the realm of fiction, they tend to suck the oxygen out of the room. You're becoming a net negative to the conversation. Please stop.

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