Theology Я Us -- The Dogma Pound

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Re: Theology Я Us -- The Dogma Pound

by FishbellykanakaDude » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:26 am

There were a few typos in the text (which is no biggy), but one line might want changing post haste:

"but they provide a rich source about Mohammed and how he lived"

..where the "v" isn't actually there. Yikes! :)



I've read most all of the text, and I like it,.. I like it a lot!


Big honkin' mahalo for your dedication to makin' other people smarter. :) <shaka nui loa!>

Re: Theology Я Us -- The Dogma Pound

by FishbellykanakaDude » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:07 pm

John wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote: > Here's a REALLY interesting walkthrough of the History of the
> Islam:
..sorry about that errant "the" in there (above). I don't know what came over me.

> History of Islam, Parts ...
I watched all five videos (total time about an hour), and I
was pleasantly surprised that they are as good as you say.

The only fault I would name is that they avoid discussing any of the
very real controversies within Islam itself. They avoid discussion of
controversies about the validity of the Koran and the Hadith, which
are important about understanding violent jihadist extremism today.
The videos blame it on the Kharijites, which is a very fanciful
explanation, since the Kharijites had disappeared within a couple of
centuries.

This is a good time to mention that I'm writing a book on
Islam and Iran, which is a subject that I'm very familiar with
because I've written thousands of articles on Islam and Iran.

It's currently just a partial draft, and the draft is currently
available on a hidden page on my web site:

http://generationaldynamics.com/pg/ww20 ... .gx113.htm

Since I'm not a Muslim, I'm able to describe Islam and Iran in a
respectful, balanced, non-ideological way, but also describing the
controversies within Islam that Muslims themselves feel obligated to
avoid.

If you have some time, take a look and tell me what you think.
Holy Catfish my good man.... looks like a fun read.

I originally happened upon that vid series because I didn't know much about the pre-Islamic to Islamic transition, or the particulars of the sectarian schisms.

My "wanderings" through youtube's material on central eurasia (mostly due to a recurrent interest in the IE/Uralic/Turkic/Altaic language conundrum) presented me with this "Azerbaijanian Perspective" series. It's always seemed odd to me that the central asians were Islamic, especially the Turkic speaking groups, as the truly desert people are SO different from the steppe and mountain peoples to the north.

These "northern" people seem more like the "earlier irish" in their attitude toward their "imported" religion. They seem to have bent it more into a less fanatical and more "naturey" quasi-universalist religion where regional variability was actively appreciated as long as the small number of important core principles were observed.

I suppose my habit of wanting to balance "universalist" spirituality with LOTS of local "flavor" makes me sensitive to examples of universalist versus tribal thinking.

"Important" (large?) religions, and political systems, tend to break right at that Globalist/Tribal fuzzy boundary.

Anyway,.. I'll dig into your text! Yeehaw!

Aloha a me mahalo! :) <shaka nui!>

Re: Theology Я Us -- The Dogma Pound

by John » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:49 pm

FishbellykanakaDude wrote: > Here's a REALLY interesting walkthrough of the History of the
> Islam:

> History of Islam, Parts 1 thru 5
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no5RCHR ... eqEjEejQnf

> It is amazingly factual! If you actually want to educate yourself,
> and don't want a "conversion attempt" (which I certainly don't),
> PLEASE do check this series out.

> I thought I knew WAY more than I actually did know, and now I feel
> much more fully armed for discussions with anyone interested (for
> whatever reason) in this very human drama.

> Aloha nui! Mahaloz at'cha! :) <shaka!>
I watched all five videos (total time about an hour), and I
was pleasantly surprised that they are as good as you say.

The only fault I would name is that they avoid discussing any of the
very real controversies within Islam itself. They avoid discussion of
controversies about the validity of the Koran and the Hadith, which
are important about understanding violent jihadist extremism today.
The videos blame it on the Kharijites, which is a very fanciful
explanation, since the Kharijites had disappeared within a couple of
centuries.

This is a good time to mention that I'm writing a book on
Islam and Iran, which is a subject that I'm very familiar with
because I've written thousands of articles on Islam and Iran.

It's currently just a partial draft, and the draft is currently
available on a hidden page on my web site:

http://generationaldynamics.com/pg/ww20 ... .gx113.htm

Since I'm not a Muslim, I'm able to describe Islam and Iran in a
respectful, balanced, non-ideological way, but also describing the
controversies within Islam that Muslims themselves feel obligated to
avoid.

If you have some time, take a look and tell me what you think.

Re: Theology Я Us -- The Dogma Pound

by FishbellykanakaDude » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:55 am

Here's a REALLY interesting walkthrough of the History of the Islam:

History of Islam, Parts 1 thru 5

It is amazingly factual! If you actually want to educate yourself, and don't want a "conversion attempt" (which I certainly don't), PLEASE do check this series out.

I thought I knew WAY more than I actually did know, and now I feel much more fully armed for discussions with anyone interested (for whatever reason) in this very human drama.


Aloha nui! Mahaloz at'cha! :) <shaka!>

Re: Theology Я Us -- The Dogma Pound

by FishbellykanakaDude » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:33 pm

John wrote:Conundrum: A Catholic Priest, a Jewish Rabbi, a Hindu Priest, a
Buddhist Monk, a Sunni Imam, and a Shia Ayatollah all enter a bar and
sit on adjacent stools. Since their beliefs all contradict each
other, at most one of them can be right, and the rest are all wrong.
Which one, if any, is right?
The answer is "42", obviously.

42 blind men (of various faiths) enter a bar. Who actually SEES the correct color of the curaçao liquor?

The "domain" of "spiritual stuff" is really very small, and it's ludicrously easy to violate that domain when dealing with human concerns as they "relate" to "spiritual stuff" between people.

As an example: I am a rigorously dogmatic Catholic, but the actual CONTENT of that dogma is very VERY narrow, and is applied to "real world situations" such that it really doesn't matter if others' "dogmas" (and we all have them) seem to contradict mine or not.

I'm not "impressed" with another person holding the position that I should be killed because we are of different faiths, unless they demonstrate they are a sufficient threat to me. It actually doesn't matter WHAT the reason for them wanting me dead, of course,.. therefore their "dogma" (article of faith) is not the issue in any case. It's merely a reason based on an opinion.

A "dogma" of mine is that it's better to be alive than dead, and that is my motivation for "self protection", not that I disagree with someone else's dogma that holds that I should be killed.

Aloha! :) <shaka nui!>

Re: Theology Я Us -- The Dogma Pound

by Heisenberg » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:22 am

JK Jesus is right and everyone else are haters 8-)

Re: Theology Я Us -- The Dogma Pound

by Heisenberg » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:03 pm

John wrote:Conundrum: A Catholic Priest, a Jewish Rabbi, a Hindu Priest, a
Buddhist Monk, a Sunni Imam, and a Shia Ayatollah all enter a bar and
sit on adjacent stools. Since their beliefs all contradict each
other, at most one of them can be right, and the rest are all wrong.
Which one, if any, is right?
Not all of their beliefs are mutually exclusive, but this is God we are talking about so even the most general of statements can't capture the true nature of God. It completely escapes any human or religion's ability to understand it fully. Any religion is just a simplifying structure to try to fit that vastness into something digestible. It's more of a game of who is less wrong.

Re: Theology Я Us -- The Dogma Pound

by John » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:03 pm

Conundrum: A Catholic Priest, a Jewish Rabbi, a Hindu Priest, a
Buddhist Monk, a Sunni Imam, and a Shia Ayatollah all enter a bar and
sit on adjacent stools. Since their beliefs all contradict each
other, at most one of them can be right, and the rest are all wrong.
Which one, if any, is right?

Re: Theology Я Us -- The Dogma Pound

by FishbellykanakaDude » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:18 pm

Heisenberg wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYiWydDyMIE

.... Lost in the abyss
Whoooo! LOVE that money!! Thank ya again tiny 8 pound 6 ounce baby Jesus..

Re: Theology Я Us -- The Dogma Pound

by FishbellykanakaDude » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:08 pm

John wrote:Question: A Catholic Priest, a Jewish Rabbi, a Hindu Priest, a
Buddhist Monk, a Sunni Imam, and a Shia Ayatollah all enter a bar and
sit on adjacent stools. Each one believes that (almost) all the
others are infidels that deserve to be killed. How come they don't
get into a fight and try to kill each other?
'Cuz they're in a BAR! :)

..the stools are REALLY comfy. And the entertainment is pretty boffo.

Also,.. they habitually have OTHER people get into fights over "issues", and don't do it themselves.



But on a more serious level: No "holy person" believes that any person deserves to be killed (much less deserves killing due to being an "infidel").

They may/probably believe that "really badly behaving" people should be "kept away" from normal society (most humanely), but will "leave it to those in temporal power positions" to pass societal judgement, simply making their case for "most humane" treatment as best they can.

If these "holy people" DO believe anyone should be willfully killed, then they're not "holy people" to begin with, or rather, are not ACTING as holy people at that particular time.

This is why "wiser" societies make a distinction between "spiritual" leaders and "temporal" leaders. Theocracy is only "wise" if the Theocrat can pull off that "multiple personalities" trick in world class fashion. It almost never works, except in very small societies with truly quasi-psychotic shaman Theocrat heads ("king/queen/monarch").

..a "group theocrat" governed society is a REALLY bad idea!

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